A Warm Welcome or a Burning Conflict: Which are You Creating?
A warm welcome at a blog leaves me with a really good feeling. There’s nothing quite like knowing that your host is happy to see you and that you can feel relaxed about hanging out to have a read. The right welcome can set the perfect mood from the start – and get you a loyal reader.
I realized how much difference a warm welcome makes when I dropped a comment on Ways to Recognize a Client from Hell at Charfish Design’s blog.
Charlie replied within minutes, happy and pleased to have me reading. Alright, granted, he’d recognized me from my comments and posts on other blogs. The notoriety was cool, but what got me right in the heart from the get-go was Charlie’s cheerful tone and open welcome.
I felt good. I felt comfortable. I subscribed, and I’ll be visiting Charlie’s blog regularly. I am welcome at his home as his friend. So friend I shall be.
However, warm welcomes aren’t always what you get when you arrive at a new blog. Some blogs – while welcoming in spirit – have a community where smiles hide fangs and someone’s always ready to stick a knife in your back. This upsets me, disgusts me, and does the blogger a huge disfavor, turning away their readers.
As a guest at other people’s blogs, you have the responsibility to be nice to others.
Deb at Freelance Writing Gigs is currently trying to turn a bad situation around. Who goofed up and set her blog on fire? Not her – she continually strives to write good content. She wants to help writers find solutions. She opens up discussion on topics that people normally hush up about. She brings bad situations to light and helps writers improve.
Yet, many newcomers to her blog – and even regular readers – hesitate to comment or participate in discussions. They are turned off by continual conflict in comment threads and the barrage of condescending remarks that come off as snooty and lofty.
They’re afraid to join the community – and I don’t blame them. The commentators at FWG pit up against each other like bulldogs, bitching and blaming each other in snippy back-and-forth arguments.
Hey. Let’s be honest. Call it what it is: jealousy and envy.
On our blog, we accept open discussion and friendly debate. Freelance Writing Gigs does as well. So why does FWG constantly end up with nasty comment sections no one enjoys?
Because commentators aren’t careful. They’re being disrespectful of the hospitality FWG offers. They lack diplomacy and tact, looking down their noses at others. They can’t see the difference between discussion and dissent. They have preconceived notions about who writes what and why, and they wield their judgments like battleaxes.
Has anyone stopped to think about the effect this might have on Deb’s career? She’s a professional writer and blogger – and commentators are making her look bad, without any damned good reason. They could be costing Deb revenue and jobs. They could be turning away Deb’s potential clients.
Do you really want to be the reason someone’s career gets hurt?
Deb’s doing something very right at the moment. She’s wiping the slate clean to start over. She could’ve clamped down hard on commentators and spent many precious hours moderating the kindergarten, burning the candle at both ends.
But she didn’t. She’s giving everyone an opportunity to meet and greet each other as equals. She’s opened her doors graciously, offering everyone an opportunity to begin again on a new, positive foot.
Before writing that comment – on FWG or on *any* blog – before hitting submit, think about what you’re saying. Think about how your bragging hurts other people’s self-esteem or how your harsh opinions hurt feelings. Think about the image you’re creating for the blogger by being rude or careless with your opinions.
Think about what kind of person you are – and what you’re contributing to the conversation.
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Despite their passion, which sometimes leads to heated comments, I maintain I have the best, most helpful community ever.
Every now and then a topic comes along that brings out …emotion. It’s hard to control yourself when you’re emotional. Creative types don’t like to keep their feelings in check. I’m not making excuses, I do expect my visitors to be respectful of one another.
That doesn’t mean this isn’t a helpful group. I’ve seen outpourings of assistance not seen on other blogs. Members of my community are eager to help newbies and participate in lively discussions.
I suppose part of it is my fault – I never had to go in and offer smackdowns until recently. I will be moderating more carefully in the future. James, I do worry that many people will read this post and stay away from FWJ for fear of this hostile community you mention. I hope they take their chances anyway.
- Deb
Oh and PS. I need to get my mind of out the gutter because every time I see “Men With Pens” I see something else.
@ Deb – I’ll respectfully amend the post or add something to it if you truly feel it will do your blog harm. But consider this – creative people need a good damned shoulder-shaking and wakeup call to recognize that this isn’t acceptable behavior.
Keep in mind that newbies will not see this post in a week and will have to go digging for it. Also, it’s clear that I mentioned that you are doing something to rectify the situation.
I don’t want people to stay away from your place. I want more people to go there and feel good about it. I want things to change. I *like* your blog, Deb. I’d talk about it more and recommend it, honestly. I *want* to discuss and converse and debate points.
However, when the readers that you *do* have, the ones who give you links and point to your site and recommend you, are afraid to come comment, do you really feel I should take this post down?
When a 37-year old man is generally uncomfortable coming to comment in your discussions, do you really think that downplaying the problem and not bringing it up to discuss is the best idea? Do you think that if people aren’t clearly shown how bad their behavior is, that it will go away? (bad grammar)
(PS – Your dirty mind can join Laura’s and Michael’s. Everyone else was just too polite to say anything… but it’s a memorable name, isn’t it? and it’s not *our* fault you guys all think of… well. You know.)
@Deb: After reading this myself, I wouldn’t worry about new readers staying away from your blog. If anything, they’re all going to head over there in droves to see what the ruckus is about. If it’s one thing I’ve learned about human nature both on and offline, everyone loves to view a house (or blog) on fire. They’ll oooh and aaaah over how terrible it is, but at the same time, they won’t be able to tear themselves away.
And they’ll see the good changes going on, be reassured, and they’ll stay and say it’s a wonderful place. And the old readers? We’ll all smarten up because James has a point.
This is a great post! A warm welcome is exactly what I received when I stopped by your blog, when I stopped by IttyBiz, and numerous others – most of the blogs written by a lot of the commentators here, actually. It is the same feeling I hope to foster when I (eventually, *blush*) go “live”.
@ Deb – as a person who hasn’t visited your blog yet, don’t worry – I enjoyed this post here very much, and I will also come and check out your blog. I’m sure that the bulk of the comments there are great, so as a n00b, this hasn’t scared me out of wanting to come and see what things are about in your corner of the world…
@ Brett – We can’t help but like you. You’re like that old regular at the bar, who always comes in for a beer just after the day’s work is done and just before heading off for supper with the wifey. The kind of guy that we reach for the beer – the right brand – and set it down cold before you even have to ask.
Or at least, we hope. Drink up while you can, buddy. There’s farmin’ to do
I hear you might be clearing trees.
Ok. I changed my mind. No more worries then.
Truth? I would’ve taken the post down if you’d asked, Deb. I don’t want to hurt your blog. I want to help it be what I think it can be – and should be. There are too many people who need what you offer.
After they come read here, of course
(sorry, couldn’t resist!)
@ James – hey, thanks! Well, that’s exactly how I feel when I come here, I guess – you guys have done a great job of making it that way. Everyone here.
PS – you never know, I travel a fair bit for work, sometimes (once every year or so) out your way, so we could stumble into the same bar some time. I’ll be the stranger ordering the Quebec liquor.
I’d better go sharpen my saw, I guess… I hear there’s lots of trees to be cut
“We can’t help but like you. You’re like that old regular at the bar, who always comes in for a beer just after the day’s work is done and just before heading off for supper with the wifey. The kind of guy that we reach for the beer – the right brand – and set it down cold before you even have to ask.”
James, why are you trying to be a bitch?! Admit it, there is some serious competition going on between you and Deb.
@ Ellen – Huh, your comment is doing something really wierd and I can’t quite fix it…
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not. In case you aren’t, please let me say that there really isn’t any competition going on between Deb and I. We have differences in our target market and don’t cater to the same groups of people or for the same reasons.
Do we cover similar content? Yes. She covers it from a writing aspect, and we tend to cover it from a web business aspect, so it isn’t the same take. We also rarely have the same topics and subjects.
Plus, I like Deb. We’ve emailed, I consider her a peer, and I’m not attempting to do anything to harm her in any way. On the contrary – I wish people would show her blog more respect.
In the case that you’re joking, then… The only competition is unrequited love. I’ve tried, really I have, but she just won’t have me.
Maybe I’m a bitch. I HATE the word WIFEY. Damnit. Don’t ever call me that! What about the word husbandy? Or, oh, forget it….
@ Ellen – Hehehe, I hear you. Considering where I live, the real old grizzled farmers tend to use that one, so it kind of seemed a natural choice.
However, please note one thing: I rarely, if ever, use the words “wife” or “husband” in any of my writing. I use partner. In Quebec, 80% of couples in long-term relationships do not marry. They are common-law relationships and marriage is an oddity. Also, in Canada, same-sex relationships are legal and considered perfectly fine.
If I wrote wife or husband, I’d be excluding a large portion of the people of my culture.
So, my apologies for the word usage today, but please know I’m a fine, upstanding young man doing right on my path in the world
You are quick on the draw. I don’t understand what Deb won’t have. More respect? I don’t get it.
Good post – and I headed right over to Debbie’s site to see what it was all about!
Good stuff…and in my mind it wasn’t all that “mean-spirited”. I’d love to have a community that debated issues back and forth like that – obviously it takes a long time to develop, but if I as Debbie I wouldn’t necessarily try wiping the slate clean.
Instead, I see her site as something “different” than all the “wonderful post – i liked it” comments that I get sick of seeing everywhere else. I’ll probably go to her site more often for some interesting debates (I’ll keep it good-natured Debbie, no worries
).
Chad | ProFreelancing’s last blog post..What To Do When You’ve Got Nothing To Do
I’m moving to Canada. It’s not too far from Michigan. You know, it’s super Tues here and things are getting scary. Apparently we aren’t supposed to talk about politics or religion on blogs, but you know what? I really can’ t stand any more republicans in this damn country. I might have to move to Canada. I can’t support a war in Iraq anymore. It’s immoral and sick.
By the way Ellen…your sarcasm or seriousness (whichever it is) has me soooo confused. Glad none of it has been directed at me – or I probably wouldn’t know how to respond….. *preparing for sarcasm/seriousness to be launched my way.
Chad | ProFreelancing’s last blog post..What To Do When You’ve Got Nothing To Do
@ Chad – When in doubt, take a lesson from the pro. Cover your ass both ways
@ Ellen – I’m very grateful that I live in Canada. It’s a wonderful country. Except in spring, when they spread manure on the fields…
Yeah, my dirty mind went though all kinds of weird things concerning “men and pens.” I think it’s because of the comparison between JCM Enterprises and this name. Leather clad men with moustaches ready to whip me…with pens. Ha!!! Alright, done for the night. Sleep tight guys. Tomorrow I need to read Harrison’s stuff. E
PS Wars suck and they always will.
@ Ellen – do I have the town for you! Deep River, Ontario – small, friendly, high-speed internet, reasonable housing prices, high-tech company as the backbone of the local industry.
(An added bonus, if you have followed the discussion between James & myself, we are close enough to the Quebec border that we can buy good Quebec liquor…
apologies if you do not drink, of course.)
Seriously, though, good luck with your move. I think you would like it.
@ Ellen – You’ll be happy to know you’re not alone. We currently ring in at 12 dirty minds and counting. I’m very pleased. Because, be honest… JCM Enterprises doesn’t hold a lot of snap and pow, does it.
Leather? Yes. Sneakers, though. And it’s not a whip, it’s called a crop. Which I use on horses, not people…
But definitely no moustache. Yuck.
Sleep well and dream of pens, Ellen!
(Brett and I are also close enough to potentially share that Quebec liquor with no one else but ourselves. We’re not opposed to sending those tiny little mini-bottles to people, though… shipping and handling not included)
@ Brett – Lucky SOB… high-speed isn’t available 10 minutes from here, so I can never move.
Okay ,one more thing. Chad, you need to entertain me, enlighten me, carouse me, flamboozleme – or all of the above. Or else, pay me to write for you. I am damn good. But you know that. I will check out your stuff. Tomorrow! It’s getting late, and I will surely turn into a punkin. Or a bitch. E
@ James – yep – we have it all here, but if we drive 200 km in either direction on *THE* road (the one and only Highway 17), there’s not much between Ottawa and North Bay…
Then again, that’s kind of nice. Drive 5 minutes in either direction, step out of the car and hear -
Nothing.
Although, some nights I’d trade the high-speed for a 24-hour store that sells liquor… Quebec liquor, that is.
Writers condescending, snooty, and lofty? The HELL you say!
I’ve felt very welcome here and it is a very good feeling. I think that’s what leads to real community.
Michael Martine’s last blog post..What Apple Teaches us about Blogging
On the left, we have the arTIstes. (Not to be confused with plain old artists, of course.) On the right, we have the copywriters. Over there, we have the print publishing writers. In this corner, we have web content writers. Oh yes, and then there are the fiction writers… the biographers… the screenwriters…
One would *think* that these people would all get along well.
@ Michael – I have the sudden urge to be rude to you just to see what happens. But I like you. So I won’t. And thank you, your comment means a lot to me.
@ Brett – The silence of the country is worth a case of Canadian Maple Whisky. We are not responsible for the condition it arrives in at your location, the same way you are not responsible for the weather once we reach Silence, Ontario.
@Ellen: Leather, yes. Especially this time of year on the bike. Full gear. No crops. No moustache, but I am a little scruffy at the moment, didn’t bother shaving today. Have fun reading my stuff tomorrow.
@Brett & James: Would someone *please* take pity on a poor American and send me a case of maple whiskey?
@Michael: Ain’t no snooty folks ’round this here neck of the woods.
Well, I’m glad that my knit-blog didn’t make your “not-welcoming” list!
–Deb’s last blog post..All Winners
@Deb the Knitter: Of course not! You guys were great! In fact, I wrote a blog about it, it should be posting early next week.
Hey James – youll have ro bwar with me, im writing this from my phone and i couldnt read the other comments well. I hope I’m not repeating what others are saying.
I recall a big debate that swept through the blogosphere about moderating comments that were either harmful, derogatory or even criticizing. To save face or to save the community built is it ok to delete post that don’t fit into your beliefs? I don’t know the answer, but u can definitely see the conundrum. Just by you telling us about the situation on her site makes me hesitant to visit. I’d say that definitely warants a little (or a lot) of moderation, but its highly likely she could alienate her readership and lose a lot of subscribers. Maybe that’s ok though.
Dave Conrey’s last blog post..Links for 2008-02-05 [del.icio.us]
@ Dave – That was Deb’s fear for FWG with this post, that readers might not be inclined to visit. I encourage you to go on over. What Deb offers for content and her efforts at creating a welcoming atmosphere show that it’s a good place. It wasn’t lately, and she has recognized that as well as implemented changes to ensure that the situation improves.
I already see very good things happening in a short amount of time, and I think everyone is going to be more careful.
I wrote this post, not to scare people away from her site, but to encourage everyone to think hard at the effects their quick words have. We often become accustomed to slamming out our comments and we forget the strong impact just a few words, a missed emoticon or a misunderstood tone might have on all readers and potential clients.
A blog fire happens very quickly, sweeps through and can destroy many things in the blink of an eye. I’ve had it happen once, and it’s worse than an uncontrolled prairie fire in the middle of a hot, dry August. All it takes is one thoughtless comment to set it off, too.
Regarding comment moderation: That’s always been a big issue and debate. We don’t moderate criticizing or negative comments here (see our FAQ page for details on our policy), but we do reserve the right to remove comments we see as harmful to our readers, our community or our business potential. Criticism is a good thing, when offered sincerely and politely. Debate and discussion, even arguments, are fine.
But enraged belittling comments, condescension, unhelpful feedback and strong, forceful language intended to attack other readers or us should be (in my view) shot dead on sight. Thoughtless commentators don’t always intend their comments to do harm, so in those cases, we remind them that words hurt – often more than fists.
Thankfully, we have never had to do that. We have a great group of readers and commentators.
Dave, I appreciate that you’ve taken the time and made the effort to voice your views from a phone. That means a lot to me, so thank you.
Couple things to clarify.
1. I don’t go anywhere without this electronic leash, which I find is the best way to stay on top of my RSS feeds. It’s a pain tapping out a lengthy comment, but I figured your post was well worth the effort.
2. I will definitely check out FWG. Maybe with a bit more civil minds, we can raise the level of participation over there. I’m an idealist, but we can hope.
3. You’ve given me inspiration for a new post. Check here for the trackback tonight or tomorrow.
Dave Conrey’s last blog post..Links for 2008-02-05 [del.icio.us]
James,
This is the most condescending thing I have read in ages. And whether this makes me one of the “fanged” or not, I don’t care.
Rachel’s last blog post..Blogs (and what they?re not)
@ Rachel – I think if you read it again with a calmer mind and taking it for what it is, an objective post that people need to be careful instead of being rude to others they don’t know, you may feel differently. It was dramatic, yes, but for a reason.
However, I didn’t make any condescending remarks (that would mean that I am better than others, and I did not say that), nor did I direct any of my statements at any person in particular.
Rachel, you’ve read the comment threads. You’ve participated in some of them. They haven’t been warm and welcoming as of late and when I read that people won’t join discussions, then we, as commentators and Deb’s community, have the responsibility to wake up and behave.
Do all people behave badly? Of course not. Many people there are nice. But it only takes a small number of people to wreck it for everyone else.
So take the message for what it was: A request that people interact in a more sociable, friendly manner. That’s all.
I’d appreciate knowing what you found condescending or why you felt attacked personally, though.
Pencil me in pen men. I like your sense of humor. I came to get Chad’s address and read Harry’s stuff.
“Pencil me in, pen men…” Oh man, Ellen, that’s brilliant! Thanks for making me laugh lol
@Ellen: Faster than ink drying on paper! Able to leap huge stacks of books in a single bound! I am Pen Man! See me write!
Thanks Ellen!
@ Ellen – if I can engage in a little “me too”, that was insanely witty…
Deb’s blog really is helpful and I’m glad that we haven’t let a few bad apples spoil it.
I think the biggest problem was a lack of accountability to the other readers. I noticed a lot of intentionally rude commenters didn’t provide a link to a personal site. I could be wrong, though.
In any case, great post. I think it’s a great reminder to all of us to be more careful when we write.
RLD: Taekwondo Happiness’s last blog post..Training Update
@ RLD – Agreed. That’s very much the message I wanted to convey, and I’m glad you see it that way as well.
James–
It seems I’m in the minority here, but I would really suggest you take a hard look at how you are portraying yourself.
You come across in this post as *very* condescending, even if you did not literally say you are better than anyone else. The implication is that you have a monopoly on courtesy, and that you know how to run someone else’s blog better than that person does.
Worse, the “let’s pity the poor blogger whose mean old commenters are costing her jobs” angle is really uncalled for. And that is exactly how it comes across–pity, not empathy.
Maybe this isn’t what you intended, but if you had posted something like this about ME? I’d be livid. As it is, it’s no more my job to jump to Deb’s defense as it is your job to pity her, or to condescendingly pat her on the head. Because I’m not her, and you’re not her.
Rachel’s last blog post..Blogs (and what they?re not)
@ Rachel – I’m trying to see your side – I really am – but I’m not getting it.
(Anyone else who thinks I’m a shit for posting this, please chime in because I really do want to have your feedback.)
I’ve reread the post four times today, and twice picking apart each paragraph. At no point do I see anything that I’ve written that might encourage we pity Deb. On the contrary, I clearly state that Deb’s doing just fine on her own and that she’s turned the situation around. I didn’t pat her on the head at all. I wouldn’t have done what she did and I said so – I think her way is better and commendable. Where’s the pat on the head? She didn’t need me and I know that.
But I do think that when a person is harming another – innocent – person’s chance at work, that needs to be pointed out and stopped. That’s not pity. That’s reality.
As for a monopoly on courtesy, no, I don’t have that. I’ve frequently admitted here and elsewhere that I make mistakes and goof up. I’ve admitted I have knee-jerk reactions just like the next guy and that I don’t always keep my cool. I try; but I don’t always make it. And I apologize when I screw up.
I don’t know how to run a blog better than others. I know what works for me, here. I know what works in general. But each blog is different and we’ve said recently just how different blogging communities can be – take knitters for example. They taught me a lesson, not the other way around.
But I do know people, social interaction and the way folk think. I study that and I make a point of observing and learning or trying different ways to achieve a result. I can tell you that a smile and open arms feels better than a dry comment – that’s common sense, not Jamie’s brilliance.
And I didn’t post this up about *Deb*. You seem to think that this is about *Deb* and it isn’t. It’s about people. I didn’t attack her blog or her methods or her content or her way of doing things. I attacked the bad behavior of others, because it is rude and wrong.
And if doing so puts me in a bad light? I’ll gladly accept that. Many times, no one speaks up against something they see that is wrong. “Don’t make waves.” “Just stay out of it.” “Keep quiet; it’ll pass.” “Don’t get involved.”
I don’t think that’s right. So I’d rather speak up and say that I’ve seen a bunch of people – myself included, which I openly admitted on Deb’s blog – behaving badly. If, by doing so, I’m conveying to people that I’m a troublemaker, then so be it.
So that’s my good hard look at myself. If people think I’m the bad guy for speaking up and speaking out against bullying, then I’m the bad guy.
But at least I will sleep well at night know that I’ve made the right moral choice for me.
@Rachel – I’ll say that I partially agree with your point about pitying Deb. I think that she is marginally responsible for the content of comments because if Deb felt the comments were condescending or disrespectful, she could have nipped it with a simple comment to ask people to be cool.
However, I don’t think James is being condescending at all. He’s voicing a genuine concern for Deb’s situation and “disgust” for what people will do when left alone to their own devices, one upping each other at every chance.
Dave Conrey’s last blog post..Lack of Vision and Commitment Could Kill Your Business
I re-read your post a few times as well, and I don’t see anything wrong with it at all.
It seems to say to me:
1. Welcoming blogs make you feel good and encourage participation
2. Some blogs have a community which is at times not welcoming
3. Deb’s blog has great content and is cool
4. But sometimes the commentators are not cool
5. Which may scare off the new people
6. So Deb’s asked everyone to try and change
7. So let’s all think about what we are going to write, before we write it, so as not to negatively affect someone else’s blog
Seemed pretty good to me…
Wow, after rereading that first paragraph of mine, I’m horrified at how poorly it is written. I’ll proofread better next time.
Dave Conrey’s last blog post..Lack of Vision and Commitment Could Kill Your Business
Damn…my ears are buring. Or rather my eyes.
The whole comment moderation is a tricky one. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. The day all hell broke loose, just happened to be a day I wasn’t around, go figure.
I don’t like to babysit adults, nor do I like to get to the point where people are uncomfortable commenting. Hopefully my little reminder to be civil makes FWJ a better place.
I do want to say this. My blog isn’t a bad place, it never was. Some of the discussions are a little spirited, but honestly, it’s filled with good, helpful people. Come by and ask for help and you’ll get 100 bits of tips and advice – they’re genuinely kind and helpful people, they just get a bit passionate. I think we get a bum rap sometimes.
@ Deb – We all do at times. I don’t think any of us are immune to that. And yes, it always seems to happen on the days we can’t be around. Like a full moon phenomena or something… and we writers do tend to profit from the fact we can get fully passionate without even opening our mouths
Public speakers can’t say that!
James! I finally made it over here and your site looks grand!
Wanted to say thanks for the very kind mention in your post! It’s much appreciated. Although, honestly it was pretty easy to give you a warm welcome having recognized your name. You’re the Air Jordan of comments, don’t you know.
I’m actually a terrible person, so it looks like I got you fooled
Well, It’s about friggin’ ti-… Air Jordan, hm? I like that… yes, yes indeed…