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	<title>Comments on: Why Bloggers Should Be Paid More, Part II: Short Posts Do Not Equal Short Hours</title>
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		<title>By: How to Finish a Writing Project &#124; Men With Pens</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-28881</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Finish a Writing Project &#124; Men With Pens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-28881</guid>
		<description>[...] content or blogging. Experienced bloggers can often turn out a post in an hour. If youâ€™re Taylor, it might be more like fifteen minutes. But Iâ€™d bet money that even Taylor canâ€™t write a fifty-page ebook in an [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] content or blogging. Experienced bloggers can often turn out a post in an hour. If youâ€™re Taylor, it might be more like fifteen minutes. But Iâ€™d bet money that even Taylor canâ€™t write a fifty-page ebook in an [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bloggers need to be realistic about Blogging Rates</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27300</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloggers need to be realistic about Blogging Rates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27300</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Bloggers Should Be Paid More, Part II: Short Posts Do Not Equal Short Hours [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Bloggers Should Be Paid More, Part II: Short Posts Do Not Equal Short Hours [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why Bloggers Should Be Paid More, Part III: Not Everyone Blogs Right &#124; Men With Pens</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27275</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Bloggers Should Be Paid More, Part III: Not Everyone Blogs Right &#124; Men With Pens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27275</guid>
		<description>[...] to the low-payment factor, to wit: that blogging is easier than writing other kinds of copy, that blogging takes less timethan other kinds of copy, and that bloggers are a dime a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to the low-payment factor, to wit: that blogging is easier than writing other kinds of copy, that blogging takes less timethan other kinds of copy, and that bloggers are a dime a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel &#124; Simply Blog</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27267</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel &#124; Simply Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27267</guid>
		<description>Wow, I like it! I&#039;ve missed you guys, I&#039;m gonna have to catch up on everything I&#039;ve missed. So far so good. Yes, rates adjusting accordingly. 

-Mig

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Miguel &#124; Simply Blog&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://simplyblog.net/simplyblog-is-powered-by-thesis-theme/&quot;&gt;SimplyBlog is Powered By Thesis Theme&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I like it! I&#8217;ve missed you guys, I&#8217;m gonna have to catch up on everything I&#8217;ve missed. So far so good. Yes, rates adjusting accordingly. </p>
<p>-Mig</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Miguel | Simply Blog&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://simplyblog.net/simplyblog-is-powered-by-thesis-theme/">SimplyBlog is Powered By Thesis Theme</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: brad hart</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27253</link>
		<dc:creator>brad hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27253</guid>
		<description>I have said it for a long time, a post takes as long as it takes to write.  A short one with a good message might be whipped out in 5 minutes or it might take several hours over a couple of days to construct.  On some blogs a 2000+ word long post might be whipped out in thirty minutes, because it is a subject you are passionate about and already know where you want to link and what you want to quote.  You simply can never price a post based solely on the time it took you to write it nor on how many words it has.

Too much goes into making a post to give hard and fast payment rules.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;brad hart&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://bradstinyworld.com/blog/5228/?source=rss&quot;&gt;Shooting at Jew Mueseum - BFD&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have said it for a long time, a post takes as long as it takes to write.  A short one with a good message might be whipped out in 5 minutes or it might take several hours over a couple of days to construct.  On some blogs a 2000+ word long post might be whipped out in thirty minutes, because it is a subject you are passionate about and already know where you want to link and what you want to quote.  You simply can never price a post based solely on the time it took you to write it nor on how many words it has.</p>
<p>Too much goes into making a post to give hard and fast payment rules.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>brad hart&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://bradstinyworld.com/blog/5228/?source=rss">Shooting at Jew Mueseum &#8211; BFD</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Veneretio</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27232</link>
		<dc:creator>Veneretio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27232</guid>
		<description>Tei - While it doesn&#039;t forgive the lack tact of my previous comment, I was in a bad mood, this post somehow hit a sore spot with me, I made a quick comment and ultimately, I made a fool of myself. I&#039;m not terribly proud of it and I&#039;m glad you were able to handle it with the professionalism that shows why you write for this site.

That said let&#039;s assume I wasn&#039;t a jerk and that some discussion on your points can still be made.

I agree that a 15 minute post takes effort. I just don&#039;t think it takes enough and I wouldn&#039;t be able to put out a piece of my writing after only 15 minutes attention on it. If a client demanded it be done that quickly, I&#039;d turn down the job. 

As to my grammar on my blog, that&#039;s a fair jab and reveals just how long it&#039;s been since I took a university English class. I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s better or worse that I&#039;m consistently wrong with how I write, (I basically just write in a way that sounds as entertaining and as much like a conversation with me as possible) but I am consistent.

Back to the article though, I agree with your premises that when the brain gets tired that it gets slower. It&#039;s a valid and important point when valuing a blogger&#039;s time and should be taken into account when quoting one&#039;s time. 

Anyway, I&#039;ll be sure in the future to not ruin your comment section with my moody days. My apologizes.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Veneretio&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/06/11/back-to-basics-selecting-targets/&quot;&gt;Back to Basics: Selecting Targets&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tei &#8211; While it doesn&#8217;t forgive the lack tact of my previous comment, I was in a bad mood, this post somehow hit a sore spot with me, I made a quick comment and ultimately, I made a fool of myself. I&#8217;m not terribly proud of it and I&#8217;m glad you were able to handle it with the professionalism that shows why you write for this site.</p>
<p>That said let&#8217;s assume I wasn&#8217;t a jerk and that some discussion on your points can still be made.</p>
<p>I agree that a 15 minute post takes effort. I just don&#8217;t think it takes enough and I wouldn&#8217;t be able to put out a piece of my writing after only 15 minutes attention on it. If a client demanded it be done that quickly, I&#8217;d turn down the job. </p>
<p>As to my grammar on my blog, that&#8217;s a fair jab and reveals just how long it&#8217;s been since I took a university English class. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s better or worse that I&#8217;m consistently wrong with how I write, (I basically just write in a way that sounds as entertaining and as much like a conversation with me as possible) but I am consistent.</p>
<p>Back to the article though, I agree with your premises that when the brain gets tired that it gets slower. It&#8217;s a valid and important point when valuing a blogger&#8217;s time and should be taken into account when quoting one&#8217;s time. </p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;ll be sure in the future to not ruin your comment section with my moody days. My apologizes.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Veneretio&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://www.tankingtips.com/2009/06/11/back-to-basics-selecting-targets/">Back to Basics: Selecting Targets</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Feels Almost Like Stealing &#124; Henry Bingaman - Copywriter</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27225</link>
		<dc:creator>Feels Almost Like Stealing &#124; Henry Bingaman - Copywriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27225</guid>
		<description>[...] the &#8220;rouge&#8221; over at Men With Pens is in the middle of a post on why bloggers should be paid more.Â  So far, she has two great posts up and I&#8217;m looking forward to the third this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the &#8220;rouge&#8221; over at Men With Pens is in the middle of a post on why bloggers should be paid more.Â  So far, she has two great posts up and I&#8217;m looking forward to the third this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27218</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27218</guid>
		<description>@ Taylor

I&#039;m not really sure if I really was making a similar point to Veneretio.  I focused on substance while he seemed to focus on writing technicalities.  

I did suggest that true value for a client may lie in longer posts, and clients may be overestimating the value of a short blog post based on a silver-bullet belief in blogging.  See for example Law21 which discusses how new law blogs today have to do so much more than the first founders: http://www.law21.ca/2008/10/07/branding-blogging-and-the-attention-economy/.  That article describes the core of my opinion much more eloquently than I do.  Then again, as you pointed out, there are some benefits that can be had from short, sharp articles.  I myself should probably do more &quot;press release&quot; stuff just to cover the field.  

However, a different issue which I agree with you on is that a professional can turn out a decent quality post in a short amount of time.  

And really, the point I made is rather off topic to your main point here which I agree with.  :)  James put it well in that last comment that if the client is paying for 10 blog posts, then they are not so much paying for one post, but for 10 consistent, coherent posts.  There is added value in that simply because the value of 10 posts is much greater than the sum of its individual parts due to the way blogs work and reward consistency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Taylor</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really sure if I really was making a similar point to Veneretio.  I focused on substance while he seemed to focus on writing technicalities.  </p>
<p>I did suggest that true value for a client may lie in longer posts, and clients may be overestimating the value of a short blog post based on a silver-bullet belief in blogging.  See for example Law21 which discusses how new law blogs today have to do so much more than the first founders: <a href="http://www.law21.ca/2008/10/07/branding-blogging-and-the-attention-economy/" rel="nofollow">http://www.law21.ca/2008/10/07/branding-blogging-and-the-attention-economy/</a>.  That article describes the core of my opinion much more eloquently than I do.  Then again, as you pointed out, there are some benefits that can be had from short, sharp articles.  I myself should probably do more &#8220;press release&#8221; stuff just to cover the field.  </p>
<p>However, a different issue which I agree with you on is that a professional can turn out a decent quality post in a short amount of time.  </p>
<p>And really, the point I made is rather off topic to your main point here which I agree with.  <img src='http://cdn.menwithpens.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   James put it well in that last comment that if the client is paying for 10 blog posts, then they are not so much paying for one post, but for 10 consistent, coherent posts.  There is added value in that simply because the value of 10 posts is much greater than the sum of its individual parts due to the way blogs work and reward consistency.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27213</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27213</guid>
		<description>@ Larry - Hey, man, good to see you here! 

I hear you on what you&#039;re saying. Clients don&#039;t care, agreed. They want a single product to achieve a single result, and the time it takes professionals to do the job is irrelevant. Highly agreed.

The problem is that while professionals like you, Taylor, myself, and many others here may know the average amount of time it takes to write one post, five posts, ten posts or more... Well, many new bloggers don&#039;t know. At all.

&quot;10 posts? No problem! Heck, I can write those in three hours flat!&quot;  The client thinks so, too. So the client assumes that $15 a post is a great rate - that&#039;s $50 an hour. 

Buuuuut... No. It doesn&#039;t really work that way, sorry. 

It takes more effort, consistent stamina of skills, reliable creativity and dependable quality (not to mention knowledge and well-crafted work) to get the true value of the post - each one of the ten - shining through. 

To get that post getting results &lt;em&gt;for the client.&lt;/em&gt;

And that doesn&#039;t take three hours, and &lt;em&gt;that&#039;s&lt;/em&gt; worth more than $15 a post.

And I believe that&#039;s the root point that Taylor was trying to make. Blogging isn&#039;t an easy job worth $15 a post (or less, in many cases). It&#039;s worth a lot more than that.

@Aeryn - Hey, woot! That&#039;s the kind of stuff we like to hear!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Larry &#8211; Hey, man, good to see you here! </p>
<p>I hear you on what you&#8217;re saying. Clients don&#8217;t care, agreed. They want a single product to achieve a single result, and the time it takes professionals to do the job is irrelevant. Highly agreed.</p>
<p>The problem is that while professionals like you, Taylor, myself, and many others here may know the average amount of time it takes to write one post, five posts, ten posts or more&#8230; Well, many new bloggers don&#8217;t know. At all.</p>
<p>&#8220;10 posts? No problem! Heck, I can write those in three hours flat!&#8221;  The client thinks so, too. So the client assumes that $15 a post is a great rate &#8211; that&#8217;s $50 an hour. </p>
<p>Buuuuut&#8230; No. It doesn&#8217;t really work that way, sorry. </p>
<p>It takes more effort, consistent stamina of skills, reliable creativity and dependable quality (not to mention knowledge and well-crafted work) to get the true value of the post &#8211; each one of the ten &#8211; shining through. </p>
<p>To get that post getting results <em>for the client.</em></p>
<p>And that doesn&#8217;t take three hours, and <em>that&#8217;s</em> worth more than $15 a post.</p>
<p>And I believe that&#8217;s the root point that Taylor was trying to make. Blogging isn&#8217;t an easy job worth $15 a post (or less, in many cases). It&#8217;s worth a lot more than that.</p>
<p>@Aeryn &#8211; Hey, woot! That&#8217;s the kind of stuff we like to hear!</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Brooks</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/bloggers-should-be-paid-more-2/#comment-27212</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3079#comment-27212</guid>
		<description>Not so sure I agree with the initial notion of each successive blog taking longer than the ones before it, though I respect the author&#039;s experience.  This is one of those &quot;nobody&#039;s right and nobody&#039;s wrong issues,&quot; it just is.  If it takes you longer as you work longer, then that&#039;s you, and you need to adjust your schedule accordingly.  Doesn&#039;t make you &quot;less than,&quot; again, it just is. However, when it comes to adjusting your rates accordingly, we need to look at it from the client point of view.  Clients don&#039;t care if we&#039;re tired and therefore slower, it&#039;s worth what it&#039;s worth.  Does your dentist charge more at the end of the day because he or she is tired?  Your accountant?  Of course not.  As professionals -- and if you&#039;re accepting money to write a blog then you ARE a professional -- we need to hold to the same standards and ethics.

Also, if it truly takes you three times longer at the end of the day than it did in the morning, then something&#039;s wrong with either your metabolism or your attention span.  Take a break between each blog, hydrate, do some push ups, have sex, whatever... then get back to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so sure I agree with the initial notion of each successive blog taking longer than the ones before it, though I respect the author&#8217;s experience.  This is one of those &#8220;nobody&#8217;s right and nobody&#8217;s wrong issues,&#8221; it just is.  If it takes you longer as you work longer, then that&#8217;s you, and you need to adjust your schedule accordingly.  Doesn&#8217;t make you &#8220;less than,&#8221; again, it just is. However, when it comes to adjusting your rates accordingly, we need to look at it from the client point of view.  Clients don&#8217;t care if we&#8217;re tired and therefore slower, it&#8217;s worth what it&#8217;s worth.  Does your dentist charge more at the end of the day because he or she is tired?  Your accountant?  Of course not.  As professionals &#8212; and if you&#8217;re accepting money to write a blog then you ARE a professional &#8212; we need to hold to the same standards and ethics.</p>
<p>Also, if it truly takes you three times longer at the end of the day than it did in the morning, then something&#8217;s wrong with either your metabolism or your attention span.  Take a break between each blog, hydrate, do some push ups, have sex, whatever&#8230; then get back to work.</p>
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