It was ugly, basic, and full of these schlocky lines that would have a red flag “bullshit” warning to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking.

And this gem…”How to ETHICALLY get inside the minds of your prospects and control their decisions” Huh? That’s simply not possible. Anyone who really takes marketing seriously has likely already closed the page.

I tried to watch the video, out of sheer morbid curiousity, but the link was down.

Frank Kern is good news for the rest of us. “Look, you have two options. You can use the ‘Frank Kern’ style OR you can take a serious look at your customers as individuals and focus on serving them as people that like what you sell.”

I don’t work in terms of “love” or “hate”. Maybe I will watch the “amazing new Frank Kern breakthrough that is guaranteed to save you TIME and MONEY!”

For now, though…thanks Frank, but from what I’ve seen…”I’m out.”

My opinion is that all of IM is a game. Some win , some lose, and the ones who get suckered are generally the ones who were looking for something for nothing. The one’s who win learned how to quit making excuses, and work their ass off.

Frank’s good at what he does, and he’s good at teaching it. Personally, I think people oughta get over themselves and be honest about the fact that they’re out to make money too. He’s just a whole lot better at than most. I can see where others may be jealous.

Lighten up people… don’t be so serious.

[...] What Frank Kern Can Teach You About Branding | Men With Pens [...]

Ahhh…your first post was in those last 3-4 posts I skipped. I agree %100 about pyramid systems of selling. Hate it. Loathe it. It’s the same a guaranteed rental return on a property sold 40% overvalue.

With Mass Control, I see Frank’s take – Frank’s approach. I have not one, but a number of offline products and services that are now doing much better since bringing them online. I find his ’selling without selling’ approach easy to implement. And I applied the ‘4-day cash machine’ and recouped my money — did I grimace at how easy it was and that I hadn’t implemented this before? Of course – after all – it’s just a time-limited sale for crying out loud – but I did it because I got the course.

Last year I bought a car – a car worth a lot more than 2K. Every couple of months the dealership sends me a letter about a new model I could buy.

There’s nice pictures of the car being driven by someone good looking, driving down a coast road, or mountain highway – all appealing to lifestyle and desire.

Do I need another car? Will the new car be unique – or will is have the basic core structure of a car? What if I fall for the marketing, and buy the car and I’m in financial trouble and I can’t really afford it? Is it their ‘fault’ for sending out the advertising, or mine for being irresponsible.

I don’t object to Frank promoting other courses. I’m a grown up – I can say “no” – just like I do to the dealership. But, one day, I might feel like doing a refresher. I might feel like hearing what someone else has to say. I might do a 2K course and pick up one or two strategies I hadn’t thought of and be glad for it. And then I’d be glad I was sent the advertising.

Business is business. Offline or online. Internet marketing – to me – is just using the internet to market your business. There are opportunities for businesses to grow online. Advertising is cheaper. Product delivery is cheaper. Rent is definitely cheaper.

I know a number of people who bought expensive training programs last year on ‘how to make money online’. One never opened the pack. The other gave up after he found it hard to change the nameservers for his hosting – oh and another kept changing from one online business strategy to another – without ever finishing anything.

Who’s at fault here?

I don’t know much about the Butterfly Marketing 2K course. I know I got a copy of the Butterfly Marketing Manuscript for free. I also know that I’m using the strategies in that free material to launch a membership site right now (one with completely original material and not in the making money niche at all), and it’s working really well. We have people signing up each week and it’s not even ‘open’ yet.

Maybe I’m just justifying my own purchase? That has to be a consideration…
So far so good though…but I’ll be back with a vengeance if it all goes sour.

Just a last question – and I mean it seriously. Do you think Frank learned anything from his significant brush with the law?

My best,

Nic Lucas´s last blog post…How to find out where you should start online

But that’s in the past, how about present behavior? I assume you’re on his list, so you just got the pitch for Butterfly Marketing, right? Another $2000 marketing system. “Buy this system, follow the steps, and you’ll make your money back in 48 hours … Don’t worry if you don’t have any content to sell, it’s all included here … I’ll show you where to get material for your subscription site for free.”

There is *no way* that system can possible work for most of the people who buy it. The point of the system is to teach you how to sell the system.

Are there also good persuasion techniques, that could apply to selling other products? Sure, no question. I’m not saying these techniques aren’t effective. But most of these sales pitches say not to worry if you don’t have anything to sell, we’ll show you where to get it.

If you check the classifieds in the back of local free newspapers, you’ll see ads like, “Send $19.95 for a free report showing you how to make money through newspaper advertising.” You order the report, and it tells you to put an ad in the paper selling reports for $19.95. Sell two copies of the report and you’ve made back your money for the report and the ad. But you can’t place the ad in the same paper where you saw it, the guy you bought from already has *his* ad there. Sound a little bit like Butterfly Marketing to you? It does to me.

At the end of the day, there has to be something of inherent value that people are buying. If the marketing system tells you to sell a marketing system showing other people how to sell the marketing system to yet more people who want a marketing system … eventually everyone is selling marketing systems to each other. The only ones who get rich are the first generation of people entering a new market with the pitch. Everyone after that has already bought the system and is trying to sell it to each other.

So the persuasion techniques, and the market research tools, absolutely they can work. It’s the other part of the pitch, the idea that you don’t actually need to have anything of value to sell, that’s the part that strikes me as dishonest. Testing the market to find who is willing to pay the most for your product is fine. Testing the market to find who is willing to pay for false hope and empty promises is *not* fine.

Drew Kime´s last blog post…I Am Not Right In The Head

Or…is it more that you have hoisted him up as an example of behaviour that you don’t like (and that none of us like, right) and you’re all hot and bothered about the behaviour – and this is what is driving this discussion.

Because if this is actually about Frank, and not just about bad behaviour, then it would mean that you DO have evidence that Frank Kern is unscrupulous. It would mean that you DO have evidence that he is ripping people off. It would mean that you DO have evidence that his information is bogus and will result in bad things happening to people.

If you don’t have that type of evidence, but you are associating Frank with the bad behaviour that none of us like, then you are engaging in a bit of sophistry.

I think we all agree that we don’t like rip-offs. We don’t like scammers. There’d be no debate about that.

What we don’t seem to agree on is whether or not Frank Kern’s approach is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ – and this wont get sorted out here because everyone here brings their own bias with them – and for some, Frank was always going to be a ‘bad guy’ – even before the video was watched.

So, what is my bias? I bought his course. I enjoyed it. I learned from it. And I compared it to the ‘internet marketing content’ of a friend of mine who’s just finished a marketing degree – and he learnt more about online business from what I was able to share with him, than the other way ’round.

Now ain’t that weird.

All the best,

Nic Lucas´s last blog post…How to find out where you should start online

[...] I recently read a blog comment from a guy who says stuff like: oh, I don’t like Frank Kern because he’s so manipulative… [...]