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	<title>Comments on: Build it from Scratch or Customize a Template?</title>
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	<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template</link>
	<description>Copywriting, Web Design, WordPress Customization - Men with Pens</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:54:47 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Serena Carcasole</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23169</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena Carcasole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23169</guid>
		<description>I agree that using a free template or  apaid one ( under $100) is a great way to go.  It&#039;s a matter of finding a good template with clean coding.  I recommend Brian Gardner his tempaltes are great and free.  Can&#039;t get better than that.  They you can manipulate it to make it unique.

If you have the money to spend on customization I say go for it but if you are getting a loan or using up your savings or chequing account then you are nuts to have it customized.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Serena Carcasole&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vbsondemand.com/2008/12/article-marketing/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Article Marketing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that using a free template or  apaid one ( under $100) is a great way to go.  It&#8217;s a matter of finding a good template with clean coding.  I recommend Brian Gardner his tempaltes are great and free.  Can&#8217;t get better than that.  They you can manipulate it to make it unique.</p>
<p>If you have the money to spend on customization I say go for it but if you are getting a loan or using up your savings or chequing account then you are nuts to have it customized.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Serena Carcasole&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://www.vbsondemand.com/2008/12/article-marketing/" rel="nofollow">Article Marketing</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Louis Burns</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23155</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23155</guid>
		<description>None of the top copywriters or graphic designer I&#039;ve modeled ever start from scratch. 

I heard from someone in a position to know that even Dan Kennedy who was charging $80K to write a single sales letter, has gotten to the point where he&#039;s just rewriting his own letters for every new client.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Louis Burns&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.louisrburns.com/conference-and-next-model/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Conference and Next Model&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of the top copywriters or graphic designer I&#8217;ve modeled ever start from scratch. </p>
<p>I heard from someone in a position to know that even Dan Kennedy who was charging $80K to write a single sales letter, has gotten to the point where he&#8217;s just rewriting his own letters for every new client.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Louis Burns&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://www.louisrburns.com/conference-and-next-model/" rel="nofollow">Conference and Next Model</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Clanton</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23103</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Clanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 03:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23103</guid>
		<description>I think a lot of the confusion surrounding this topic depends on how you use the template. Some &quot;designers&quot; just throw a new photoshopped skin over a template without making any adjustments/optimizations at all. But that&#039;s not design. 

Real design also involves making choices based on the fuller needs of the client. As you pointed out, a lot of that can be done by figuring out which template to start  from. A good designer can work from a template and do it right. The problem isn&#039;t templates, it&#039;s lack of design sense.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Joshua Clanton&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/JoshuaClanton/~3/425723506/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Unprofessionalism #1: Blog Dis-Integration&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of the confusion surrounding this topic depends on how you use the template. Some &#8220;designers&#8221; just throw a new photoshopped skin over a template without making any adjustments/optimizations at all. But that&#8217;s not design. </p>
<p>Real design also involves making choices based on the fuller needs of the client. As you pointed out, a lot of that can be done by figuring out which template to start  from. A good designer can work from a template and do it right. The problem isn&#8217;t templates, it&#8217;s lack of design sense.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Joshua Clanton&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/JoshuaClanton/~3/425723506/" rel="nofollow">Unprofessionalism #1: Blog Dis-Integration</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23078</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23078</guid>
		<description>Well, the reason for the tweaking is that I bought a theme which wasn&#039;t all that suited for my needs, so made it work with brute force...

Don&#039;t regret it, as learned a lot about Wordpress customization, but guess I&#039;m used to doing that.  

Is the main reason why am looking at a new theme though.  

And yes, am doing up a sketch of what would be the ideal theme, so can then compare against what is on the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the reason for the tweaking is that I bought a theme which wasn&#8217;t all that suited for my needs, so made it work with brute force&#8230;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t regret it, as learned a lot about Wordpress customization, but guess I&#8217;m used to doing that.  </p>
<p>Is the main reason why am looking at a new theme though.  </p>
<p>And yes, am doing up a sketch of what would be the ideal theme, so can then compare against what is on the market.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23075</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23075</guid>
		<description>@ Patrick - I highly suggest that you take a piece of paper and sketch your perfect home page. Lay it all out. Then we&#039;ll tell you which theme would fit best.

I&#039;m curious, though - why would you need/want to do so much tweaking? It seems that you have a Chevvy in your head but you keep looking at Fords, thinking, &quot;Damn. I want a Chevvy.&quot; In short, if you&#039;re always looking at the *wrong* themes and not dismissing them quickly (as Alex did), then you&#039;re wasting time.

Or seeking perfection :)

@ Graham - Yes, yes we were. And I&#039;m so sick of people coming over with their snotty, uninformed comments about white on black that I couldn&#039;t help but leap right out of context.

I mean, really, people. Would you walk up to someone on the street and say, &quot;Dude. I fucking hate your coat, it&#039;s the ugliest thing I&#039;ve ever seen, and I&#039;m never looking at you again.&quot;

/rant. Thanks for listening.

Back to the theme versus custom...

To be frankly honest, the price difference I saw at one site was $900 for theme template and over $3,000 for custom. ALL OVER this woman&#039;s site, it was written, &quot;Get custom because otherwise, your business will fail.&quot;

I thought that was such bullshit and a huge ripoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Patrick &#8211; I highly suggest that you take a piece of paper and sketch your perfect home page. Lay it all out. Then we&#8217;ll tell you which theme would fit best.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious, though &#8211; why would you need/want to do so much tweaking? It seems that you have a Chevvy in your head but you keep looking at Fords, thinking, &#8220;Damn. I want a Chevvy.&#8221; In short, if you&#8217;re always looking at the *wrong* themes and not dismissing them quickly (as Alex did), then you&#8217;re wasting time.</p>
<p>Or seeking perfection <img src='http://menwithpens.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@ Graham &#8211; Yes, yes we were. And I&#8217;m so sick of people coming over with their snotty, uninformed comments about white on black that I couldn&#8217;t help but leap right out of context.</p>
<p>I mean, really, people. Would you walk up to someone on the street and say, &#8220;Dude. I fucking hate your coat, it&#8217;s the ugliest thing I&#8217;ve ever seen, and I&#8217;m never looking at you again.&#8221;</p>
<p>/rant. Thanks for listening.</p>
<p>Back to the theme versus custom&#8230;</p>
<p>To be frankly honest, the price difference I saw at one site was $900 for theme template and over $3,000 for custom. ALL OVER this woman&#8217;s site, it was written, &#8220;Get custom because otherwise, your business will fail.&#8221;</p>
<p>I thought that was such bullshit and a huge ripoff.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23073</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23073</guid>
		<description>Back @ Harry, yes, it is very possible to tweak a theme.

My main issue is that after so much tweaking, the theme you end up with is very much custom, and it becomes really hard to evaluate future theme upgrades, cause you&#039;re depending so much on your own unique tweaks.

I know personally, I think I need a new theme.  But there doesn&#039;t seem to really be a theme out there that has ~everything~ I want, so it&#039;s a difficult process of trying to choose the closest and visualizing how it would look after a week&#039;s worth of tweaking. 

Maybe I should make a dummy site to play around on and try to get a new theme up and running to a superior level of functionality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back @ Harry, yes, it is very possible to tweak a theme.</p>
<p>My main issue is that after so much tweaking, the theme you end up with is very much custom, and it becomes really hard to evaluate future theme upgrades, cause you&#8217;re depending so much on your own unique tweaks.</p>
<p>I know personally, I think I need a new theme.  But there doesn&#8217;t seem to really be a theme out there that has ~everything~ I want, so it&#8217;s a difficult process of trying to choose the closest and visualizing how it would look after a week&#8217;s worth of tweaking. </p>
<p>Maybe I should make a dummy site to play around on and try to get a new theme up and running to a superior level of functionality.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Fayle &#124; Someday Syndrome</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23072</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Fayle &#124; Someday Syndrome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23072</guid>
		<description>To me it all comes down to what is the best use of time and money to reach your goals. And for 95% (or more) of web-clients, a tweaked theme does just that.

Choosing the right theme, however, can be very time consuming. I remember going through a zillion of them before deciding on the one I picked. I even looked at the code of many of them.

One thing that I really liked about the theme the PenMen suggested was it&#039;s ease of understanding in the coding. Things are explained, they&#039;re laid out clearly, and making tweaks and changes is more or less straightforward.

This was especially important since I planned on doing tweaks myself and didn&#039;t know much about theme design and php.

So, what was my goal then and how did my final decision serve it?

Goal: to find an inexpensive or free theme that I would pay to get customized then tweak myself afterwards.

Having that clearly in my head meant that I could dismiss a multitude of themes in moments. Made life much easier.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Alex Fayle &#124; Someday Syndrome&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SomedaySyndrome/~3/465969388/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Do We Choose to Be Unhappy?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me it all comes down to what is the best use of time and money to reach your goals. And for 95% (or more) of web-clients, a tweaked theme does just that.</p>
<p>Choosing the right theme, however, can be very time consuming. I remember going through a zillion of them before deciding on the one I picked. I even looked at the code of many of them.</p>
<p>One thing that I really liked about the theme the PenMen suggested was it&#8217;s ease of understanding in the coding. Things are explained, they&#8217;re laid out clearly, and making tweaks and changes is more or less straightforward.</p>
<p>This was especially important since I planned on doing tweaks myself and didn&#8217;t know much about theme design and php.</p>
<p>So, what was my goal then and how did my final decision serve it?</p>
<p>Goal: to find an inexpensive or free theme that I would pay to get customized then tweak myself afterwards.</p>
<p>Having that clearly in my head meant that I could dismiss a multitude of themes in moments. Made life much easier.</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Alex Fayle | Someday Syndrome&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SomedaySyndrome/~3/465969388/" rel="nofollow">Why Do We Choose to Be Unhappy?</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Dave C</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23071</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23071</guid>
		<description>I think you really need to look at it through your customers eyes. Most do not care what the underlying code is. They simply want the design that they have in their head put on the web.  I am %100 sure that you could build the same template in different ways so the average web user,  not in the business, has no clue it the same underlying code. We see and can sometimes pick these out because we are in the business, but to a lot of our customers have no clue what a template is, they just know they want a custom design. I think it is time wasted reinventing the wheel every time. Start with something flexible and add a nice design and you have a winner!

My $.02
Dave

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Dave C&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Thetemplateblog/~3/452306557/joomla-158-released-takes-care-of-some-bugs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joomla 1.5.8 Released takes care of some bugs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you really need to look at it through your customers eyes. Most do not care what the underlying code is. They simply want the design that they have in their head put on the web.  I am %100 sure that you could build the same template in different ways so the average web user,  not in the business, has no clue it the same underlying code. We see and can sometimes pick these out because we are in the business, but to a lot of our customers have no clue what a template is, they just know they want a custom design. I think it is time wasted reinventing the wheel every time. Start with something flexible and add a nice design and you have a winner!</p>
<p>My $.02<br />
Dave</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Dave C&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Thetemplateblog/~3/452306557/joomla-158-released-takes-care-of-some-bugs" rel="nofollow">Joomla 1.5.8 Released takes care of some bugs</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Graham Strong</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23070</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Strong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23070</guid>
		<description>@James - Ah, okay -- I thought the conversation was about hiring a web designer to build from scratch or from a template, and the cost difference between those two. Definitely, a template is the way to go for the DIY who doesn&#039;t have the time or inclination to learn all the ins and outs of web design.

~Graham

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Graham Strong&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grahamstrong.com/blog/the-art-of-perception-v-how-does-apple-do-it/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Art of Perception V: How Does Apple Do It?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James &#8211; Ah, okay &#8212; I thought the conversation was about hiring a web designer to build from scratch or from a template, and the cost difference between those two. Definitely, a template is the way to go for the DIY who doesn&#8217;t have the time or inclination to learn all the ins and outs of web design.</p>
<p>~Graham</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Graham Strong&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://www.grahamstrong.com/blog/the-art-of-perception-v-how-does-apple-do-it/" rel="nofollow">The Art of Perception V: How Does Apple Do It?</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/build-it-from-scratch-or-customize-a-template/comment-page-1#comment-23068</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2169#comment-23068</guid>
		<description>@ Ariane - We&#039;ve been through the black/white issue before, and actually either black on white or white on black is just as readable for the human eye. I even covered this issue during my human physiology courses.

We are *USED* to seeing black on white. That doesn&#039;t mean white on black is less readable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ariane &#8211; We&#8217;ve been through the black/white issue before, and actually either black on white or white on black is just as readable for the human eye. I even covered this issue during my human physiology courses.</p>
<p>We are *USED* to seeing black on white. That doesn&#8217;t mean white on black is less readable.</p>
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