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	<title>Comments on: Facing the Real Costs of Doing Business</title>
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		<title>By: John Hoff - eVentureBiz</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22919</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hoff - eVentureBiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22919</guid>
		<description>The nice thing about being in business for awhile is that you have data to work with.

One of the businesses I&#039;m a partner in is a family owned local landscape company. Here&#039;s a couple rules we go by:

- Know when to turn down a project (we learned this the hard way). Many times there are red flags all over the place. We even had one older couple try to copy major parts of our drawing (at the bid) by having the husband lure us into the backyard for a moment. My father realized we left the plans in the living room and when he went back to grab them, the wife was copying the plans (they loved what we had but wanted someone else to do it cheaper).
We turned them down.

- Keep stats. After a year or so you will be able to determine &quot;how much&quot; a phone call is worth. If your business phone rings, for example, does that equate to $50? Same with new customer emails.

- Never lose eye on what works and what doesn&#039;t. Most likely your business plan will evolve and change some. Do what works and when it stops working (or never did), stop or change it. (sorry, that one might be off topic)

- Like our boy James said, when it comes to family, they come first. Every entrepreneur needs a solid foundation. If your personal life is on the rocks, you likely won&#039;t perform as well as you could and will be distracted. Getting yourself together and building your beliefs and goals on a solid foundation is priceless.

@ Rachael - I was like you. I had a high level position in a local hotel/casino here in Vegas. It paid me $90k per year, but it came at a price. The only things I did at home was eat and sleep. Then on my days off, I was too tired to do anything.

I decided to live a simpler life and focus more on things I enjoy. In my early days as an entrepreneur I had a real estate investor mentor. One of the first things he told me was, &quot;The worst thing you can do to build wealth is work a normal job.&quot;

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;John Hoff - eVentureBiz&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/eVentureBizBlog/~3/455671364/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Do You Have A SEO Question?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The nice thing about being in business for awhile is that you have data to work with.</p>
<p>One of the businesses I&#8217;m a partner in is a family owned local landscape company. Here&#8217;s a couple rules we go by:</p>
<p>- Know when to turn down a project (we learned this the hard way). Many times there are red flags all over the place. We even had one older couple try to copy major parts of our drawing (at the bid) by having the husband lure us into the backyard for a moment. My father realized we left the plans in the living room and when he went back to grab them, the wife was copying the plans (they loved what we had but wanted someone else to do it cheaper).<br />
We turned them down.</p>
<p>- Keep stats. After a year or so you will be able to determine &#8220;how much&#8221; a phone call is worth. If your business phone rings, for example, does that equate to $50? Same with new customer emails.</p>
<p>- Never lose eye on what works and what doesn&#8217;t. Most likely your business plan will evolve and change some. Do what works and when it stops working (or never did), stop or change it. (sorry, that one might be off topic)</p>
<p>- Like our boy James said, when it comes to family, they come first. Every entrepreneur needs a solid foundation. If your personal life is on the rocks, you likely won&#8217;t perform as well as you could and will be distracted. Getting yourself together and building your beliefs and goals on a solid foundation is priceless.</p>
<p>@ Rachael &#8211; I was like you. I had a high level position in a local hotel/casino here in Vegas. It paid me $90k per year, but it came at a price. The only things I did at home was eat and sleep. Then on my days off, I was too tired to do anything.</p>
<p>I decided to live a simpler life and focus more on things I enjoy. In my early days as an entrepreneur I had a real estate investor mentor. One of the first things he told me was, &#8220;The worst thing you can do to build wealth is work a normal job.&#8221;</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>John Hoff &#8211; eVentureBiz&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/eVentureBizBlog/~3/455671364/" rel="nofollow">Do You Have A SEO Question?</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22918</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22918</guid>
		<description>@ Patrick - Not necessarily. Too many clients fall in love with their own product, their vision, their philosophy, their language, and they lose complete sight of what the customer wants, seeks and desires.

They get stuck on a design idea that isn&#039;t good. They fall in a rut with copy that doesn&#039;t work. They use language that doesn&#039;t matter to customers. They can&#039;t reach their target audience because they want X - even if Y is better.

A good client is clear, respectful, patient and understanding, and he or she also has the open-mindedness to listen to feedback and suggestion.

After all - if you hire a professional, you should have the ability to let the professional do his or her job, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Patrick &#8211; Not necessarily. Too many clients fall in love with their own product, their vision, their philosophy, their language, and they lose complete sight of what the customer wants, seeks and desires.</p>
<p>They get stuck on a design idea that isn&#8217;t good. They fall in a rut with copy that doesn&#8217;t work. They use language that doesn&#8217;t matter to customers. They can&#8217;t reach their target audience because they want X &#8211; even if Y is better.</p>
<p>A good client is clear, respectful, patient and understanding, and he or she also has the open-mindedness to listen to feedback and suggestion.</p>
<p>After all &#8211; if you hire a professional, you should have the ability to let the professional do his or her job, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22917</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22917</guid>
		<description>@ Ali - So... a client who knows what they want and is decisive about it is a good one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ali &#8211; So&#8230; a client who knows what they want and is decisive about it is a good one?</p>
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		<title>By: Ali Hale</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22914</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali Hale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22914</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve only been freelancing full-time for a few months, but have already learnt how true James&#039;s words are... 

The jobs which are least &quot;costly&quot; to me are ones which are ongoing, and which no more than turning over the goods to the client with a brief, friendly email. (Mostly my freelance writing jobs.)

My website jobs, which I initially thought would be a good earner, have proven FAR more costly in terms of my time, energy and attention than I&#039;d expected. I mostly create small, simple websites for small (hopefully not simple...) clients. I&#039;ve found that for each website, about 75% of the time I actually spend on it is in client phone calls, emails, tweaking things that clients changed their minds on, scanning in images for them... Actually creating the sites has been pretty simple.

I&#039;ve learnt a couple of lessons from this:
- I&#039;m focusing on my freelance writing rather than websites, and keeping the website design/creation for my own projects (I don&#039;t want to give it up altogether).

- I&#039;m learning how to handle clients better (I find that some rarely respond to emails until I phone, for instance).

So something I&#039;d urge people to do is to really take in James&#039;s advice about the real cost of doing business. I earn less in an hour&#039;s writing than an hour of web coding, but the writing involves vastly less admin so actually works out better &quot;value&quot; in terms of my time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve only been freelancing full-time for a few months, but have already learnt how true James&#8217;s words are&#8230; </p>
<p>The jobs which are least &#8220;costly&#8221; to me are ones which are ongoing, and which no more than turning over the goods to the client with a brief, friendly email. (Mostly my freelance writing jobs.)</p>
<p>My website jobs, which I initially thought would be a good earner, have proven FAR more costly in terms of my time, energy and attention than I&#8217;d expected. I mostly create small, simple websites for small (hopefully not simple&#8230;) clients. I&#8217;ve found that for each website, about 75% of the time I actually spend on it is in client phone calls, emails, tweaking things that clients changed their minds on, scanning in images for them&#8230; Actually creating the sites has been pretty simple.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve learnt a couple of lessons from this:<br />
- I&#8217;m focusing on my freelance writing rather than websites, and keeping the website design/creation for my own projects (I don&#8217;t want to give it up altogether).</p>
<p>- I&#8217;m learning how to handle clients better (I find that some rarely respond to emails until I phone, for instance).</p>
<p>So something I&#8217;d urge people to do is to really take in James&#8217;s advice about the real cost of doing business. I earn less in an hour&#8217;s writing than an hour of web coding, but the writing involves vastly less admin so actually works out better &#8220;value&#8221; in terms of my time.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22913</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22913</guid>
		<description>I dunno, am planning on offering you guys some large design work early next year as have indicated, and as it will be a big project, this topic got me thinkign about whether I&#039;d have to do any convincing myself to have you take it on, or whether there&#039;d be a scheduled waiting period etc, or whether this kind of thing you mentioned in this post is really directed at &#039;the client from hell&#039;.  

Of course, I&#039;d like to be able to frame the work in a way that&#039;s most profitable to both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, am planning on offering you guys some large design work early next year as have indicated, and as it will be a big project, this topic got me thinkign about whether I&#8217;d have to do any convincing myself to have you take it on, or whether there&#8217;d be a scheduled waiting period etc, or whether this kind of thing you mentioned in this post is really directed at &#8216;the client from hell&#8217;.  </p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;d like to be able to frame the work in a way that&#8217;s most profitable to both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22912</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22912</guid>
		<description>@ Pat - I have &lt;a href=&quot;http://menwithpens.ca/the-client-from-hell&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How to Avoid Being the Client from Hell&lt;/a&gt;... but maybe we&#039;re due for a revisit to the topic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Pat &#8211; I have <a href="http://menwithpens.ca/the-client-from-hell" rel="nofollow">How to Avoid Being the Client from Hell</a>&#8230; but maybe we&#8217;re due for a revisit to the topic?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22911</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Vuleta - Lawfully Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22911</guid>
		<description>So what can a client do to be a good client?

I think you&#039;ve talked about that before though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what can a client do to be a good client?</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve talked about that before though.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Fayle &#124; Someday Syndrome</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22904</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Fayle &#124; Someday Syndrome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22904</guid>
		<description>The real cost of business for me? Conversion stress and burnout.

I felt it in my hands-on organizing business and I feel it now.

I&#039;m the sort of buyer who knows my needs. I go looking for someone who will fill that need by looking at the accomplishments. I decide if their product or their service (and customer service) fit with my need and with who I am, and then I look at price and buy.

I therefore approach my own sales in this manner forgetting that most of the world isn&#039;t so practical and needs to be enticed. That causes stress, which puts me on edge and then not only does my business suffer, but everything else in my life does too, including my relationship.

If I could partner up with someone who better understood all this stuff and whom I got along with, I&#039;d happily accept the cost of bringing in only half the earnings (because I&#039;d more than halve my stress).

Any takers? ;)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Alex Fayle &#124; Someday Syndrome&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SomedaySyndrome/~3/458301429/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Can You Just Enjoy a Moment?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real cost of business for me? Conversion stress and burnout.</p>
<p>I felt it in my hands-on organizing business and I feel it now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m the sort of buyer who knows my needs. I go looking for someone who will fill that need by looking at the accomplishments. I decide if their product or their service (and customer service) fit with my need and with who I am, and then I look at price and buy.</p>
<p>I therefore approach my own sales in this manner forgetting that most of the world isn&#8217;t so practical and needs to be enticed. That causes stress, which puts me on edge and then not only does my business suffer, but everything else in my life does too, including my relationship.</p>
<p>If I could partner up with someone who better understood all this stuff and whom I got along with, I&#8217;d happily accept the cost of bringing in only half the earnings (because I&#8217;d more than halve my stress).</p>
<p>Any takers? <img src='http://menwithpens.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Alex Fayle | Someday Syndrome&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/SomedaySyndrome/~3/458301429/" rel="nofollow">Can You Just Enjoy a Moment?</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Graham Strong</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22901</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Strong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22901</guid>
		<description>Hey James,

I think the key is to parcel your time. Yes, some days you will have to burn some midnight oil to meet deadlines. Other days, you can take the afternoon off and kick the soccer ball around with the boys.

But generally speaking, boundaries really help. I&#039;m working today from XXam to XXpm, and after that we&#039;ll kick the ball or play Wii or do your dictÃ©e. This weekend we&#039;ll go out for dinner. You&#039;re in my book, it&#039;s a date, it&#039;s set in stone.

It is definitely harder to &quot;leave it at the office&quot; when the office is just down the stairs. But it is not impossible -- and it&#039;s definitely worth it.

~Graham

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Graham Strong&#180;s last blog post...&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grahamstrong.com/blog/the-art-of-perception-part-iv-what-colours-people%E2%80%99s-perception-of-you/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Art of Perception (Part IV): What Colours Peopleâ€™s Perception of You?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey James,</p>
<p>I think the key is to parcel your time. Yes, some days you will have to burn some midnight oil to meet deadlines. Other days, you can take the afternoon off and kick the soccer ball around with the boys.</p>
<p>But generally speaking, boundaries really help. I&#8217;m working today from XXam to XXpm, and after that we&#8217;ll kick the ball or play Wii or do your dictÃ©e. This weekend we&#8217;ll go out for dinner. You&#8217;re in my book, it&#8217;s a date, it&#8217;s set in stone.</p>
<p>It is definitely harder to &#8220;leave it at the office&#8221; when the office is just down the stairs. But it is not impossible &#8212; and it&#8217;s definitely worth it.</p>
<p>~Graham</p>
<p><abbr><em><abbr><em>Graham Strong&#180;s last blog post&#8230;<a href="http://www.grahamstrong.com/blog/the-art-of-perception-part-iv-what-colours-people%E2%80%99s-perception-of-you/" rel="nofollow">The Art of Perception (Part IV): What Colours Peopleâ€™s Perception of You?</a></em></abbr></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/facing-the-real-costs-of-doing-business/comment-page-1#comment-22899</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=2138#comment-22899</guid>
		<description>@Alex: Agreed. My mom said the same thing. There&#039;s a very fine line between being picky and cutting off your own nose. Between James and I, I&#039;m always the first to say &quot;No way! We are *not* working with this person!&quot; and then James will say, &quot;We&#039;ll give it a shot, it might not be so bad...&quot;

Most of the time, he&#039;s right. And when he&#039;s not, I try not to say &quot;I told you so&quot;. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alex: Agreed. My mom said the same thing. There&#8217;s a very fine line between being picky and cutting off your own nose. Between James and I, I&#8217;m always the first to say &#8220;No way! We are *not* working with this person!&#8221; and then James will say, &#8220;We&#8217;ll give it a shot, it might not be so bad&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Most of the time, he&#8217;s right. And when he&#8217;s not, I try not to say &#8220;I told you so&#8221;. <img src='http://menwithpens.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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