Writing a novel is lonely work. There’s just you, and you’re isolated. You probably don’t share your work for fear of criticism or ridicule. The only people who know about what’s on the pages you’ve penned are your characters.
Collaborating with another person on a novel opens up a wealth of exciting opportunities. Many writers toy with the idea of co-authoring, but few follow through – and that’s a shame.
Co-Authoring is Easy
Many methods allow two (or more) people to work on a novel at once. Email is the simplest, with each person adding a section onto the document as his or her turn comes up.
Another method of fast-paced co-authoring is chat-based role-playing, in which each person chats via IM in the persona of his or her character. As each session is done, all you need to do is copy the text into a Word document and give it a good edit and a polish.
Forum posting is another popular method and blogging certainly has its potential. Each new post develops the scene. Comment sections can be used for the authors to discuss or take notes about each paragraph.
Collaboration is Damned Fun
Single authors have the daunting task of knowing all their characters moves and thoughts – and having to make all that sound fresh and unscripted at all times. It’s difficult to create a true surprise reaction when you know the outcome of the situation.
A co-author eliminates the issue. You never know what’s coming around the bend. The element of surprise is always there, the drama runs high, and your focus is on that of your character’s reactions. They’ll always sound realistic, because they aren’t pre-planned.
Don’t Plan Everything
Novels should have a start, middle and end. But planning out everything ruins that element of surprise we just discussed. Reactionary writing is far more entertaining for both novelists and readers.
You may want to have a skeleton framework for your story. If you both know the plot, don’t fill in the blanks. Alternatively, have only one of you know the plot to help keep the suspense alive.
A third option is to fly by the seat of your pants and see where your characters take you both.
Every Author Has a Character
The best collaborations are ones in which each author has his or her own set of characters. The characters aren’t shared between writers.
That way, the character’s author comes to know the persona as well as he or she knows himself, without the distraction of another person’s perception muddling the character concept.
Usually, though, either author can set up scenes. An introduction scene sets the stage for all characters involved, and the authors work with what has been provided as detail.
Pick a Similar Style
One caution when choosing a collaborator: Pick a person who writes similarly with a tone and style that resembles your own. Your work needs to blend with your co-author’s and vice versa to appear seamless to the reader.
It must read as if only one person penned the novel. Any distractions, a change of tone, a subtle shift in style, and the suspension of disbelief goes shooting right out the window.
Don’t Discuss
“Why’d you do that?” “What’s your character thinking?” No, no, no. Never discuss your novel out of character. The biggest reason is that it’s far more interesting for everyone involved to work the issues out in character – and you’ll potentially have a stunning scene.
Another common co-author phrase you may hear is, “I can’t react without knowing what your character is going to do.” Bullshit. Yes, you can. Writers who say this fear the unknown, but a good novel is all about not knowing what’s going to happen next.
Set your character free and let him or her react openly given the circumstances. If the world blows apart, so be it. If devastated emotions occur, rock on. If the whole scene shifts and part of the plot becomes irrelevant, enjoy it.
Harry and I have been collaborating on novels for so many years that we may have missed covering one point or another. If you’re curious about co-authoring and you have a question, feel free to ask.
It’ll be our pleasure to share our knowledge with you.
Great tips, James!
I have always thought that writing is something you do on your own, until it’s time to get feedback from someone (maybe your friend or spouse) acting as the editor… Because of that , I’ve never tried collaborative writing.
Now that I have read your tips, I’m itching to try it out
Do you think this could work on something else than fiction as well? Like blogging, for example?
Jarkko Laine’s last blog post..The Only Question That Matters: How Useful Can You Be?
Well, take a look at Harry and I – we co-author some blog posts (most not, but some yes). Sometimes I have a great idea and get it started, then I run out of steam. Or sometimes it’s Harry. We write, the other reads and adds to the content. We interject more thoughts.
The really savvy readers can probably pick out individual sentences that they know “sound” like one of us. Challenging, though
Another thought – isn’t sharing blogging responsibilities a form of co-authoring?
Yeah, that’s true. You are co-authoring the blog as a whole even if you don’t write individual posts together. Just like you can co-author a book so that each collaborator brings in a chapter.
But I’ll have to check some of your co-authored posts – I don’t usually pay that much attention to which one of you wrote the post, so I didn’t realize you sometimes do write together
Jarkko Laine’s last blog post..The Only Question That Matters: How Useful Can You Be?
This is a wonderful idea (now, to find somebody to write with…) – seriously, this is a great use of IM that I never thought of doing.
(I’ve thought of maybe trying an RPG that way, but this is a productive use of the tool.)
I think the part where you suggest not to discuss out of character is a key part of it too. Sort of like in a brainstorming session, where you just want flow and no interruptions.
Great post, James.
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Brett, now that you mentioned how good a use for IM this is, I started thinking of Campfire… It would be a perfect tool for this because it automatically keeps track of the history of what the other contributors have written – and you can even write when the others are not online.
Wow… I wish I had more time to try this out…
Jarkko Laine’s last blog post..The Only Question That Matters: How Useful Can You Be?
@ Jarkko, I agree with you 100 percent on Campfire… hmm, I’ll have to look into it more for future use. That is one tool I don’t use yet.
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Jarkko – you have the best name for a character. Very gripping. Is it Swedish?
I will have to look into this campfire thing you guys.
I write alone and have never tried collaboration. But this is very inspiring. I’d like to write a screenplay of the novel I’m working on, so maybe I’ll try it with that.
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
Okay, yes and no. Everything you say makes a certain amount of sense, but I have to tell you that, as a reader, it’s very, very, VERY rare that I find a book written by more than one author that I find readable. At least, in terms of fiction. I can count on one hand the co-written-novel combinations that I’ve enjoyed, because all too often, I feel that the two writing styles don’t mesh well enough and the book feels like it’s been written by committee–it’s got all the pieces and they more or less work, but the soul is missing.
But, you know, maybe that’s just me.
–Deb’s last blog post..Take Your Starting Positions…
@ Deb – And that’s exactly why we say that you have to take the time to find the right person with the same style, otherwise the whole thing falls flat. People can’t just choose anyone or their best friend – it’s a choice based beyond emotion and one that has to be a good mesh so that the reader can’t tell the difference.
A good example is David and Leigh Eddings. I couldn’t tell where one begins and the other ends. Judith Tarr and Harry Turtledove are another good pair.
A poor pairing? Anne and Todd McCaffrey. The new Pern novel suck because I can see exactly where there are two different styles and tones going on. It ruins it for me.
@ James – just like choosing a roommate perhaps – sometimes your best friend isn’t the best choice, for various reasons…
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
I can definitely attest to that one. Right, Harry?
Well, sure–that and the fact that Todd doesn’t have half the talent his mother has. Maybe he’d be doing better if he just created his own world to begin with rather than trying to insert his style and tone into her unique Pern. In fact, that’s one of the reasons I never read fan fiction–even when the writing is good (which does sometimes happen), they never feel truly rooted in the original world.
My favorite writing duo? Sharon Lee and Steve Miller. Their Liaden books are fabulous and darn good sci-fi/space opera reading, too. They’re even writing a book right now, live and online–a new chapter every Monday. Love that.
The Eddings’ work well together, too, but you know, they were apparently working together back with the original Belgariad, but it was only David’s name on the covers, so that you never realized it was two people. By the time they put Leigh’s name up in lights, the tone was, well, the tone! (And, do you know, David Eddings is one of the few authors I’ve written fan-mail to? I mean it was back in high school when Magician’s Gambit had just come out, but still!)
One way that I think you can put two authors in the same book without the different voices being jarring? Those sometimes-annoying epistolary novels, where they’re written as a correspondence between two people. Because, well, they’re supposed to sound different!
–Deb’s last blog post..Take Your Starting Positions…
Bingo. And that’s why we say to never share characters – the voices need to be completely distinct.
You hit the nail right on it, and that proves our point – collaboration can be done, if it’s thought through very well and if it’s addressed properly. It can be exciting, inspiring, and fun.
@James: Very true.
@Deb: Only on very few occasions will James or I write the other’s character. But this came after several years of working together. We know each other and the characters well enough to do quick bits here or there, but I do think it would loose some of the flavor if either of us had to completely take over fully.
I’m not a huge chick lit fan (ok, I hate it), but I did read The Nanny Diaries. A close friend told me it satirized rich snobs and how they treat their employees, and I’m always down for that. I later saw an interview with the co-authors and was amazed at their methods for working together. What would drive me mad (outlines, table talks) makes them thrive.
I am not co-author material, and I know it without trying. My writing is too personal, and I’m too OCD. I’d get into a rumble and ruin the relationship. But I admire that it works for some people. I’m looking forward to reading a novel co-authored by you two. That will be a real treat.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
Co-authoring sounds like an amazing experience, but I’m sure that I won’t get the chance to do it for a while. Oddly enough, I’m the only writer that I know outside of virtual life. Seems as though someone needs to get out more
RLD: Taekwondo Happiness’s last blog post..Update
@ Amy – Just visited your blog, very nice! Like the poem.
@James – Don’t understand why you are against bloggers who blog on Blogger. Some of us start out cheap and work our way up.
I am looking forward to reading your novel, Harry and James. Maybe you could earn some money by letting us read a chapter or two for a price?
I tried to get this idea going for myself and others to no avail. It’s a good idea, no?
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
@ Ellen – That’s an interesting concept. You’d be willing to pay a couple of dollars to read a chapter?
As for Blogger, it harms you more than it does you good. I know that some people swear by it, but with 80% of bloggers (according to Darren Rowse) using WP, I’d say there’s good reason to make the switch. A domain is $8, hosting is less than $10 a month, and you could propel yourself into a whole different market – just from appearances.
Plus, Blogger isn’t user-friendly. Great for publishers, horrible for readers and commentators.
Work your way up for sure – but I think that looking at the options to see which is best to help you get there faster makes sense. That’s my thoughts
@ RLD – And what’s wrong with a virtual partner? Harry and I are 3,000 miles apart…
@ Amy – Hehehe… little bit of a control issue going on there, eh? Wait until you see what we have in store in the coming months. You can have your cake and eat it, too.
@Ellen – Thanks! I’ve had dozens of people tell me they won’t visit my blogs because I’m on Blogger. James hasn’t told me that. But others have. I will have to visit your blog now.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
@James – I am control freak. Here me roar. (GRR!)
Oh, and I’ll pay to read a chapter. In fact, I think that’s an interesting concept. I’d do it for a lot of books, because so much of what I buy I quickly learn isn’t for me after the first chapter or two. Let me pay to download a chapter so I can see if it’s worth killing a tree over. Go Ellen. Good plan. Now try selling that idea to the corporate american mentality that is our publishing world.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
P.S. Start with a letter to Al Gore. Make it an environmental issue, and this thing could really fly.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
@ Amy & Ellen,
Your blogs are both worth visiting, in spite of any limitations due to Blogger. If you want to switch, that’s always an option too.
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@ Amy,
Al’s cool. He uses a Mac. And that Genie Lift thing he had on An Inconvenient Truth was a pretty good stage prop…
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
At the very least, WordPress.com is also free, and you could always upgrade to wordpress.org when you’re financially ready–and it’s an easy switch. Maybe spend the $10 to register your domain name and mirror it to the blog, but still–free WordPress is still (in my personal opinion, having used both) nicer than free Blogger. I don’t actively avoid Blogger blogs but I find the commenting so annoying, I rarely comment.
–Deb’s last blog post..Take Your Starting Positions…
@ Ellen and Amy – I’ve never said I won’t visit a Blogger blog, but a Blogger blog does seriously cut down on my urge to comment. And I love a good conversation, so maybe that’s why I push for WP more.
@ Deb – What you said. Yessir. (Or Yes’m, as you Americans tend to say)
@ Amy – Alright, I’m sorely tempted now. It’d be interesting as hell to see what people say, and don’t Harry and I always say to take chances and risk putting yourself out there? We should put our money where our mouth is.
What’s a chapter worth?
@James – This is making me sad, but you’re right. I will probably switch to WP soonish. Yes, I would pay a few bucks to read chapters. Try it!
@Amy – See?! I tried to comment on your blog and Blogger shut me out. I’ll try again. Yes, I hate the corporate mentality that is our publishing world. It just sucks.
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
Aw, Ellen, don’t be sad… I like you. I don’t want you sad. Why be sad? Be happy, it’s a cool, exciting thing. Change is awesome, think of all the coolness that’ll happen. Or stay at Blogger and give me the finger and tell me I’m a shmuck and feel happy – that works too. I can take it, you know.
*braces*
@ James,
Having spent upwards of $100 for certain books, a chapter could be worth more than a couple of bucks.
Never mind Blogger, I’m just happy to be going towards something that allows Subscribe to Comments…
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Ellen – sorry about that. I’ve honestly never had anyone tell me they couldn’t leave a comment, just that they didn’t want to.
So that’s something new. I am probably one of the few people on the planet who genuinely likes blogger (for the most part).
@James – what’s a chapter of YOUR book worth or in general? If it’s an already published book, I’d say divide the sale price by the number of chapters. For a chapter of an unreleased book, I’d pay more.
@Brett – That subscribe to comments thing does bug me about Blogger. I’ve heard a rumor that they’re fixing that though, and I hope it’s a true rumor. Oh, and I’m a big Gore fan. But that probably doesn’t surprise you.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
@ Brett – I like friendly ease of user availability, so James and Deb have a point. But that’s nice of you to say.
@James – Whadya think? $ 2-3/chapter? I don’t think people would have a problem with that. How long is the book?
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
Sharon Lee and Steve Miller, who are publishing their current book online, chapter by chapter (here: http://www.korval.com/saltation/ ) do it this way–they publish the chapters on Monday and ask their readers for donations. They set a base price per chapter ($300) and won’t publish one without having received that much in donations. But meanwhile, people can read for free and only have to pay if they’re satisfied . . . they just won’t get another chapter unless enough people pay some $.
That said, they haven’t needed to miss a week for lack of donations–they’re paid up for quite a few chapters already! And, oh yes, if you donate $25, when/if the book is ever actually published, you get a “free” copy.
–Deb’s last blog post..Take Your Starting Positions…
That’s a frigging brilliant idea – why didn’t I think of that? I’m going to go check that out now. That’s a friggin’ AWESOME idea. Thanks, Deb!!
@ Ellen – Our novel is worth more to me than a reader will ever realize. While that sounds cliché, what I’ve been through to write this novel gave me a rich experience of life that I would never have had the chance to even come close to touching – ever.
@James – oh, there’s nothing wrong with a virtual partner
You and Harry and successful, so that proves that it would work. I just don’t think that I know anyone well enough to get into the co-authoring thing. To me, meshing writing styles is important, but I think that the authors have to mesh in personality as well 
RLD: Taekwondo Happiness’s last blog post..Update
@ Amy – there is a good chance that will happen – Google eventually listens if enough people ask for stuff.
No that doesn’t surprise me, and that’s okay by me
He seems like a nice guy with some good ideas. I find our politicians to be watered down up here… Personality goes a long way for me with politicians (I liked Ron Paul too, I emailed him and got a response… how often does that happen, and I’m not even a US citizen!)
@ Ellen – hey, I only speak the truth. You write some good stuff.
@ Deb – that is a really innovative concept worth checking out. I’ll have to take a look, thanks for the heads up. It never hurts to see what other people are doing.
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Deb – That is the best idea I’ve seen in a LONG time. I totally want to rip off that idea. Would that be wrong? :-\
@James – I feel your pain. I wrote a novel that no agent or publisher (I’ve found yet) will touch, because there’s no genre (or not a big enough bookstore shelf). It’s sitting in a drawer filed under “personal therapy.” I’m considering self-publishing it, if only to see it in print. It will probably be the only novel I ever write, because I don’t have what it takes to be a commercial novelist. And I’m not good at putting a price tag on things.
@RLD – I agree that personality messing would be very important. I’d have to have someone who understands why I can’t look at an outline without going batty, and that I am major OCD-mission gal before I’ve had my coffee.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
I meant “meshing” not “messing” – hehe.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
@ Amy – then you should totally rip off that idea (I know I will consider it) – why reinvent the wheel, right?
And if you self-publish your book I’ll buy it.
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
I’m ripping off that idea. Period.
@ Amy – Our novel is rather niche itself. It’s definitely something that Harry and I would have to think over putting into the public eye. I mean, we were going to, but at a moment when we had a deep breath and were ready. Maybe that moment came sooner.
@ RLD – Yes. If you can’t get along, then it’ll never work. Or at least you need to be able to make up after a fight lol
@ James – do it, if it works for you & Harry. That’s one thing I like about this crowd, the ideas that come out of the discussions are priceless.
I got an idea the other day chatting with Amy and visiting her blog, about blogging for niche industries with deep(er) pockets, so I’m going to investigate that further… (thanks Amy!)
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Brett – I’m American, and I hate our politics. Aside from knowing I’m voting against Bush (and any new relative they might feel the need to spring into office), I’m pretty out of the loop. I like Gore as an activist more than as a politician, I’d have to say. Not that he’s a bad politician, just that I don’t know enough about what he stands for politically. I do like his activism, and I like that he didn’t crawl in a hole and leave the scene after losing the election (even if that’s just a ploy to run again and win). I give him many props, Mac user or not.
And now, back to your regularly scheduled writing-relating comments. LOL
Oh, and Brett, I’d be willing to send you the manuscript to look at if you’re serious. I’d be highly interested in knowing what you think of it.
@James – If you’ll be the Badass Leader and rip off the idea first, I will be the Badass Follower who later points and says, “But he did it first.” Seems to work with all other kinds of theft online.
If I’ve ignored anyone’s comment directed at me, I apologize. I’m now under a deadline (translated, one of my attorneys read my blog and found out I spent most of the morning reading through poetry books, so now I’ve actually gotta do some work).
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
My first (and biggest) question is copyright protection. *mulling, mulling…*
@ Amy – I’ll take a copy of that manuscript, too
@ Amy – I hear you, that’s why I put personality up there before politics. Trust is an important thing.
I have a sort of acid test for politicians (and most people, actually). I call it the “wallet test”. Would I be comfortable loaning someone my wallet for five minutes, or an hour? So for me, Al Gore passed that test… I agree with you too about Gore, he didn’t disappear, just keeps on going – I like that. And he’s not afraid to admit when he makes mistakes, too (he did that in his latest book)
Yes, back to writing stuff – I’d be honoured to take a look if you wish, I would enjoy that very much.
(good luck with your other work today)
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Amy – Politics! Yea! Yeah, we Americans have it hard with the current bunch of snooks running our country. The only reason I voted for Clinton back then was because of Gore.
@James – I understand exactly how you feel about your novel. It is quite an emotional process. I have one under my belt and am working on my second. I cried when I finished my first one because I wouldn’t be able to “visit” my characters any more. It was done. Yes, make sure you copyright it before putting it online.
@Deb – This is a great idea, and thank you. I will take this into consideration also.
Now we can all promote each other’s writing.
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
I just love getting all excited and hyped up about something that might work!!
@Brett – I like your acid test. Will you give me your wallet?
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
@ Ellen – sure thing! I trust you.
(Besides, there’s nothing in it today anyway, I’ve been off with the kids all week and they spent all of my money on toys and junk food…)
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@ Ellen – Well, actually, no need to copyright before putting online. Copyright is instantaneous upon creation and requires no registration. Registration does mark it a little more but isn’t necessary. Save your pennies.
I suppose it’s one of those “gasp, but people will *KNOW* what we wrote,” and then of course… that’s the whole point of publishing a book anyways, isn’t it!
As for closing down characters forever, no can do here. That’d break my heart. I retire them, yes, but they’re always alive in my mind, ready to go again whenever I am.
Regarding politics: We liked Clinton because he was sort of Canadian in his way of thinking. Bush is terrifying. Obama seems nice. Besides that, we really don’t care
Our own political campaigns start about two months before elections, involve a small quiet debate or two and then go away. Very nice.
@James, who said “A poor pairing? Anne and Todd McCaffrey. The new Pern novel suck because I can see exactly where there are two different styles and tones going on. It ruins it for me.”
NO NO NO!!!
The new Pern books are great and getting better. Can you see the different styles? Yes, but each story and character is so different, that it doesn’t really ruin it. In fact, I think it kind of enhances the whole experience. I think Todd started off kind of weak but he’s getting better.
*shakes head and walks off looking for a cup a klah and a dragon to ride*
Melissa Donovan’s last blog post..Jeff Buckley: Grace
@James – Yes, it is hard. It makes you feel a bit naked. But blog writing prepares you for all of that. Sort of. Yes, my characters live on in my heart and mind also. But now I have new characters occupying my time. I currently live in Elizabethan England. I have even had to learn how to speak early Modern English. But, just a flavor, or else no one would understand it. I could go on and on, but I don’t want to hog the floor.
I am looking forward to reading your work.
@Brett – Get busy with that novel! And Deb! And Amy!
Let’s start a revolution and throw the current corporate publishing industry on it’s ear.
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
Her name was Lessa. Yes, Todd’s writing was sort of choppy, but I actually liked the stories of the watch-whers and the way he gave those beasts a new glory (it always bothered me how they were treated in Anne’s books). I also thought Kindan was a fairly strong character, as was Nuella. I just finished the entire series so it’s all pretty fresh in my head.
However, I think the best of the collection are the books with Masterharper Robinton. He’s one of my favorite literary characters of all time. I’m pretty sure on Pern I would be a harper. Heheh.
I haven’t read Melanie Rawn, or even heard of her actually. Hmm, is my reading list about to grow yet again? As if it’s not long enough already…
Melissa Donovan’s last blog post..Jeff Buckley: Grace
I cried when Robinton died, and I got a little mad too, but it had to happen. He’s like the guy everyone wants to be close to and whose fondness you want to earn. Even the dragons adored him! I liked Pellar. Actually, there aren’t really any characters I don’t like in Pern. I hate it when the dragons die.
Ever read Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Darkover series? The style and quality of the writing fluctuates a lot over time. Some are extremely boring, others totally riveting. She gets kind of scandalous too.
I just read Anne McCaffrey’s biography and it seems Zimmer Bradley once made a pass at her. Anne also had a fling with Isaac Asimov. Asimov’s son used to rent videos at the store I worked at. I could say a lot more about that, but I’ll refrain. Yes, I got the sci fi gossip right here.
This is totally my genre. I love all types of books and stories but the sff ones resonate most.
Melissa Donovan’s last blog post..Jeff Buckley: Grace
@ Brett and James – Seriously? It’s 65,000 words of incestual law firm life, with a touch of child abuse and lesbianism. Written memoir-style, but it’s fiction. Still want to read it?
@ Ellen – What have you written?
Oh, and I liked Clinton too. More than the others of my lifetime anyway.
Amy Derby’s last blog post..Why We Write
@ Ellen – writing the novel right now (type, type, type)
The revolution starts now.
@ Amy – Definitely.
Bill Clinton was, and still is, cool.
Brett Legree’s last blog post..subterranean self worth.
@Deb, I thought Dragon’s Fire was sort of YA too, but it didn’t bother me. Tell us about your book! Are you considering self-publishing?
@James, This particular Marion is a woman. If you have a great local used bookstore, I found a lot of the Darkover novels that way (super cheap too). I can’t enter a bookstore without spending $100. It’s sick. Just sick.
There are a couple of McCaffrey biographies. The one I have is by Robin Roberts. Frankly, I think the writing is extremely poor and the information is not organized very well. She seems to be bouncing back and forth between a true biography and a literary analysis of Anne’s work. You might try the one that Todd wrote. Can’t think of the title offhand, but it’s definitely on my list.
Melissa Donovan’s last blog post..Jeff Buckley: Grace
@ Amy – Seriously. I study psychology, I’m pro gay, and lawyers screwing around are always interesting.
@ Ellen – LOL… No. Blog writing doesn’t prepare you for the potential exposure that a novel displays to the public. Unless you write about elves and dwarves, that is
There was nothing better than the early Pern novels with F’lar, F’nor and… Lyssa? Something like that.
(I research every freakin’ day. I’m not going to if I don’t have to!)
The writing was so smooth and the characters so alive and rich that they were great. Todd seems to have brought the short sentences to the printed page and they’ve lost their smoothness in the process. The characters aren’t rich, we don’t know what they’re thinking and the description lacks in visual imagery.
He can’t carry on the Pern legacy. But at the very least, he’s keeping the world alive, so I can’t scorn him too much.
Have you read Melanie Rawn yet?
@Amy – Sounds way groovy. I like stuff like that; I will read it.
1st Novel – About a wildlife biologist and DA of Chicago, who get together and solve a heinous environmental crime. No shit.
2nd Novel – Time travel back to Elizabethan England. A love story of sorts, with the cutting edge of physics thrown in for good measure. I can’t give away any more then that, or I would be forsaking my muse. And he is a jealous one.
I’m very confident of my story telling. What I’m not confident about is the state of the corporate publishing industry.
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
You *have* to read Melanie Rawn. Those are rich, rich books. Anne Bishop as well. They instantly leaped up to my top favorites of all times, and I’ve read a sh*tload of books.
I loved Robinton… until he aged. That upset me so much that I disconnected with the character. The Dragonsong series were also particularly good ones as well (speaking of Pern and Robinton). I was cheering for Sebell (?)
Kindan was a very strong character and the one I liked the most. I dislike Pellar deeply – actually I just don’t like Dragon’s Fire at all, period. I’ll still buy the next ones, but… meh.
Now, if Bishop put out a book about Lucivar, I’d spend my dime on her any day.
Is there a publishing industry any more? There are a few bigwigs and everyone else is going self-publishing, which is both fantastic and terrible. The number of crap novels out there is amazing. The number of fantastic writers is amazing.
I wish I could own Torr and Del Rey. I’d have an empire.
Which reminds me… if anyone finds ANY freakin’ university offering courses in publishing beyond Simon Fraser, please let me know. Google sabotages my search with relevant Canadian material and cuts out much of the rest… and I cannot believe there is no place to get formal education in publishing. That makes no sense.
@James, Amazon then? I’ve had good luck ordering used books there, and you can save on shipping if you get a bunch of books from the same reseller.
@Ellen, Yes, I’d love to. I write blogs mostly, some poetry, and I have some fiction, not ready for publication. Oh, and essays — but I usually turn those into blog posts these days.
I think we love this stuff because it engages the imagination. At least that’s why I love it.
Mists of Avalon is wonderful.
Melissa Donovan’s last blog post..Jeff Buckley: Grace
Who asked about a university course on publishing? There’s the University of Denver’s month-long Publishing Institute (http://www.du.edu/pi/) (Hi, Class of 1990.) NYU has one, too (http://www.scps.nyu.edu/areas-of-study/publishing/)
Oh, and I have a completed novel, thank you very much, (124,000 words) and trying to get it published is discouraging! (Wait, go ahead, ask me how I know.)
And, I’m sorry, I thought “Dragon’s Fire” was just awful. It’s like he’s writing for young adults.
–Deb’s last blog post..…And the Finish Line
@Deb, I love it when people rewrite fairy tales and folklore (we were just talking about Mists of Avalon!) with a new twist. Yeah, it’s nice if YA is marketed as such. I hear J.K. Rowling intended the HP series as adult or general reading but her publisher categorized it as children’s lit. I kind of like to be surprised, so as long as it’s good, I’m pretty impartial.
Melissa Donovan’s last blog post..Jeff Buckley: Grace
I didn’t know she even had a biography. I’m going to have to set up a wish list and visit Chapters.ca more often (it costs a fortune to ship to Canada with Amazon). I try to stay away from it because… well, I spend a lot.
I have one ZB book – Sword of Aldones, I believe. Loved it, never bought any more. I have no idea why.
Now I’m wondering if Marion is a man or woman, because Marion is a woman where I live, but I could be wrong. Not that it matters.
@ Deb – You rock. I’m hoping they have distance education, though, because damned if I’ll live in Denver
Marion Zimmer Bradley was a woman, and many of her books were very much pro-woman without actually being feminist. Her Darkover books are amazing, and Mists of Avalon is one of the best re-tellings of King Arthur around.
And, Denver was quite nice for a month in the middle of the summer….
–Deb’s last blog post..…And the Finish Line
I have Mists of Avalon, too, very nice read, that. Jack Whyte is another one who did a spectacular job of the Arthurian legend, though PRE-sword. He went into who made the sword and how and why… Very soothing, quiet writing set in Roman times.
@ Melissa – I have a full library, one new and one used books bookstore in my town… but I live in Quebec. All the books are French. If I’m lucky, there’s a spattering of English books.
And while I read French fluently (can I say fluently if I’m not speaking?), I’m sorry, but it’s just not the same. Plus, the French use some funky formatting for paragraphs and quotes. *shudders*
Sorry I haven’t been around much today, but MZB’s Mists has been a favorite of mine since I first laid eyes on it when it came out. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read it.
These days I read mostly Terry Pratchett’s Discworld.
@Melissa – Will you join our band of self-publishing, self-promoting fools? What do you write?
@Harry – Better late then never.
I love Marion Zimmer Bradley also. Why do we love this stuff?
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
@ Amy – http://www.write-from-home.com/ Your feed shows the title only and no post at all. ?
@Melissa–I love reading YA, too, but not when it’s been marketed as a grown-up’s book. (“Adult” book has the wrong connotations, here.) I like to know what to expect!
And my book? The quick answer: A re-telling of Cinderella where the stepmother and stepsisters get a fair shot, and that goes beyond the prince finding the girl to tell how he introduces her at Court and, more importantly, gets his parents to agree to his marrying a girl who’s been scrubbing floors for years (grin).
–Deb’s last blog post..…And the Finish Line
@James – Okay, I’m done with Blogger. I have been trying to update the damn thing and it is so damn buggy it is driving me f**** bananas. If I could afford Harry I would hire him. Next time around. Damnit!
@Melissa – That is a great idea turning essays into blogs. I was going to suggest the converse.
Ellen Wilson’s last blog post..The Art of Seeing
@Ellen: I’m affordable, drop me a line if you haven’t spoken to James already. Tell me what you’re looking to do. We’ll work with you.
You know that I’m all for partnerships, but I really don’t think I could write a novel with another person. I just have to have way too much control over the world I’m creating and the words I’m putting down. I just don’t think I could handle it if someone else had such a big say. Way too much of a control freak, I think!
lornadoone’s last blog post..Can You Handle Being Edited?
@Ellen: It’s Finnish
Sweden is right next to us geograhically so people often mix us, but we’re not the same.
Feels strange to reply to your question after there has been such a lively discussion about everything else in between. Great, friendly discussion, I must add.
Jarkko Laine’s last blog post..The Only Question That Matters: How Useful Can You Be?
I don’t have much to contribute to the discussion of the actual post… I don’t write fiction and I’m too much of a control freak to relinquish control of the story/blog post to someone else! Something I have to work on.
@ Deb – I loved the Mists of Avalon!
I haven’t read any of the other books you were all talking about… I’ll have to put them on my reading list.
I’m a huge fan of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series (here’s hoping his wife finishes it!) and Terry Goodkind’s Sword of Truth series. Also, on the topic of co-authors, I REALLY liked The Golden Key, by Melanie Rawn, Jennifer Roberson, and Kate Elliott. I should read it again… last time I read it I was probably too young to really be able to tell whether the writing styles meshed well or not.
Allison’s last blog post..Feisty Tuna Roll
Interesting discussion. I skimmed most of the comments. Harry left me a note on another blog stating that he and James were co-writing and suggested I come over and mention my co-writing experience. That’s how I got into writing fiction. I met my partners in an adult ed class that was supposed to be about publishing but ended up being ‘another’ creative writing class. But all turned good, despite the change, because it got me exploring fiction.
I’ve written with two groups: the first was FOUR women who met together once a week to work on the project and drink a lot of good wine. Then three of us got serious and decided to finish it, so we sacked one of the members who just couldn’t hack it. Not pleasant. But the three of us left finished the first draft. Then we discovered how much was left to be done. It’s still left to be done.
Then we decided to pursue a new project, one of the members dropped out, and we recruited a third. One word of caution: if you are at different stages of writing, avoid bringing in new people. They haven’t had the same experience you have. But saying that, we did finish the project, subbed most through a crit group, and are now doing the revisions. I pitched it to an agent and once we are finished polishing, will send to her.
One other word of advice: get a written and signed agreement between the parties. I got a copy of the boilerplate from the Australian Society of Authors. It outlines who will represent the group for business purposes, royalty splits, who can use the characters after the first book, etc. It’s a peace of mind thing to protect everyone’s interests after all the hard work. My partner and I are finishing the second project, but the third party get a cut if we sell it because she did contribute to it.
I’ll stop there. Oh, one more thing. We meet in person once or twice a week and each have ‘word quotas’ when writing first draft. But the rewrite is being done together, one line at a time. It’s grueling, but fair.
Jan
Excellent advice, Jan, and sounds like you’ve been through the wringer – but you’re still with it. Good job!
Jan – I am very glad Harry roped you over here. You sound like a very interesting person I know. I am more a work-alone kind of gal, but I am big on contracts and signed documents, so I can see your planning as very smart from a business/legal standpoint. I have seen smaller group efforts fold due to lack of planning and a clear divide (who does what), so it makes sense to me that this would also apply to a collaborative fiction project — I’d just never thought of it.
I am curious to know what you’re writing. I am nosy like that…
Amy – Write From Home’s last blog post..Networking For Freelance Success: Make Friends, But Choose Wisely.
Hi, Amy. Yes, I come from a managerial and consulting background where contracts spell out the ‘rules’. Of course we also wrote in an amendment clause that states how those rules could be updated because we didn’t know exactly what the future would hold.
As for what we’re writing — the first book [the trunked one] was about a Chicago pharmaceutical company that smuggles plants out of South Africa to use as a new weight loss product and the people who try to stop them. Title: Reflections
The second project is a missing person mystery set in a Melbourne bayside suburb. Julia Stewart is in the middle of Melbourne with her little girl and her husband doesn’t come back when he goes to get change for the tram. Over the course of four days, Detective Taylor Franke and psychiatrist, Dr Sadhu Singh, work to solve the mystery. Title: The Lost Anchor
My solo effort that is finished and made it to semi-finals of the Amazon contest is Sins of the Children. This one is a murder mystery. Teen Nancy Wilson, at her father’s insistence, is burying her first love in the family pasture – literally. The story is about the group of four friends in the early summer of 1976 when two end up dead.
JanW’s last blog post..Film Review – Charlie Wilson’s War
Mind if I asked a question? I need some advice.
I’m co-writing a novel with my friend for nearly 4 years and we have changed the whole plot several times already so now I can say we are finally happy with the theme (after killing all the plot holes and nursing some characters back to life). But we still have this problem: how to write scenes where are characters who belongs to both of us? Like for example my Mr. X and her Mr. Z. Neither of us wants to mess up the other one’s character. Scenes where are more people at once are constant source of fried nerves for us.
So could you possibly share some more of your secrets of successful co-authoring regarding this problem? Thank you=)
@ Lenka – That’s a very good question.
Harry and I co-authored our series of novels, and we also work together at Escaping Reality. Here’s how we do it:
We have characters that are our babies. I have X, he has Y. We never write these characters for each other – they’re sacred. But we do have other characters that we consider “not part of the game” – they have a purpose, but it is definite, delineated and short-term. These characters carry no meaning for either of us, so we don’t really care how the other writes this character.
Also, we know the characters well enough that if one takes over, the other usually agrees with the actions and dialogue that writer pens.
Why not stop sharing characters, if it’s an issue? Or why not write scenes that have no more than two characters, yours and hers?