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  1. Up until this point, I can’t say I’ve had any of the bad experiences that you cite. I’m thankful for that.

    As far as my own conduct, I try to be nice and respectable. Sometimes I do indeed disagree with a point or two of a bloggers post, and share my opinion on it. But in doing so, I try to exercise great care. The last thing a commentator wants to be perceived as is a troll!

    And it may even be a good idea – that if you’re going to be critical of something a blogger wrote in the comment section, try to also speak well of an area you did agree with! As you say, since the readers can’t see our expression or tone – great care must be taken.

    Bamboo Forest’s last blog post..Making People Feel Appreciated can Make You Rich

  2. James says:

    @ Bamboo – Hey, first!

  3. @ James: Early birds get the worms. But they don’t get the first comment.

    Bamboo Forest’s last blog post..Making People Feel Appreciated can Make You Rich

  4. Sam says:

    Well, yes, bad manners are a problem – it is just too easy to hit send, and there is no way to get that words back.
    Plus, people tend to forget they communicate with other people, not with machines, because they don’t see them.

  5. Kelly says:

    James,

    I agree heartily, read everything over a couple of times—come back and read it again in a half-an-hour if you’re not sure—the world won’t fall apart if your comment or email doesn’t get sent that instant.

    I hope I’m not rude, but I am sometimes pretty gol-darned opinionated. My old New England manners usually translate well to the ‘net, but I don’t know if my old New England honesty goes over quite as well. *sigh*

    It’s part of my charm. :p Truth is, I’m the same chick in RL, manners, opinions, and all. I work at choosing every word until it sounds as much like “me” as I can make it. I probably translate about the same even when I can see you, for better or for worse. Though I do have a nice voice, so I’ve been told. Maybe it helps.

    As to having the experiences? Oh, yes. Folks with half-formed opinions and fully-formed anger management issues wander by my world now and then, in comments and in email. What can you do? I have a long fuse and it’s just print on a screen after all. Walk away. With all the real stuff I’ve dealt with in my life, if virtual stuff happens I’m not going to let that be the junk that gets under my skin.

    Well, not for more than a minute, anyway.

    Good topic. In spite of the link-fest up there, it’s always worth revisiting, because you are right. Lots of folks don’t get it yet. Goodness, I hope I’m not one of them, but I can always use another reminder to slow down. Once it’s out there on the ‘net, it’s forever. Eeeek!

    Regards,

    Kelly

    Kelly’s last blog post..Tip of the Week: Do More

  6. James says:

    @ Sam – This is very true. People are talking to their monitors and a website most times. They honest to goodness forget that SOMEONE is behind that website. I’ve seen a flaming comment section absolutely devastate the person behind the scenes, and it’s seriously not pretty.

    @ Kelly – You and I are much alike. We’re direct, straightforward people who are confident enough to say what we feel. I think we both realize that because of that, we have to be extra careful and more diplomatic on a general level and at all times.

    Generally, responding to emails takes me minutes. I’m fast and I’m pleasant. But when I’ve had to write a difficult email, I write about four to five drafts, edit many times and ask Harry to read and give me his perspective of the message (American that he is). I am extremely careful to make sure to stay positive and polite because it’s just too easy for me to go all Quebecer.

    See, that’s the thing, too. My culture is passionate and quick to react. Then we all chink beers and it’s all good. That behavior is pretty baffling to the rest of the world.

    So is my babbling. Must have more coffee.

  7. Lisa Wilder says:

    Great post, James. I think you’re absolutely right about the lack of consequences making some less inhibited about what they’re willing to say. To my mind…if you wouldn’t dream of saying it in person, you shouldn’t be saying it online either.

    And, as you’ve also pointed out, greater care needs to be taken since the recipient of your words doesn’t have tone of voice, body language, etc. to help gauge your intent. This makes it especially important, when emotions are high, to take a breather and calm down before saying something that you not might not only regret later, but that there will be written documentation of.

    If something you’re feeling highly charged about can’t wait for a response, I’ve found it helpful to run my words by a trusted colleague or friend to insure that I’ve conveyed whatever needs to be said as diplomatically as possible.

    Lisa Wilder’s last blog post..When You’re Cranky and You Know It…

  8. Kelly says:

    Haha. My Irish, too. Impassioned, intelligent, Opinionated with a capital O, then chink beer, move on. I’ve worked a lifetime on doing that as easily as my family does.

    Kelly’s last blog post..Tip of the Week: Do More

  9. Hi James – From the moment I began using the Internet, I noticed this problem – particularly the cultural thing. It’s easy to write how you would speak and often this comes across as offensive when you don’t mean to offend.

    Now, when I get an email that I think comes across as offensive, I often leave it for half an hour before responding and re-read, as it often comes across differently a second time. It’s so easy to blast off an offensive reply and hit send.

    Cath Lawson’s last blog post..Make Money Online & Screw The Middleman

  10. James says:

    @ Catherine – Ha ha! Yes, you and I have shared some “wtf” moments ourselves – two personalities that are too much alike, and I’m very glad that we’re both the type of people who like to resolve things too. You, Kelly and I would probably have a blast in a bar.

  11. Wow, those are a lot of links :) However, the first thing I thought when I saw all those links wasn’t “Google love” — I thought “wow, James is passionate about this”.

    I’ll have to say that my biggest problem with communicating is that when I’m typing, I realize that I’m talking to real people. I end up typing things that I would say in a face-to-face conversation, without realizing how my tone of voice would have impacted the statement.

    I tend to be blunt, but very good-natured. Unfortunately, all that comes across on the internet is the blunt >.< It’s hard for me to realize that the receiver of my messages can’t see my smiling face or hear my tone of voice. I never realized how much I rely on non-verbal communication until I had to do without it!

    When I type, it helps me to take humanity out of the picture for a little bit, so that I can read my statement with objective eyes. That way, my words *have* to stand alone. Granted, this method of thinking is not for angry typists, but I would recommend it to those good-natured folk who *really* don’t want to hurt feelings :D

    RLD: Taekwondo Happiness’s last blog post..Why can’t I gain belt rank? (part 1)

  12. James says:

    The first thing I thought when I saw all those links wasn’t “Google love” — I thought “wow, James is passionate about this”.

    I have to thank you for that. It pleases me beyond belief that my readers would know me well enough to perceive exactly that without me having to say so.

    It was also really interesting to see that you *do* perceive me in that way… kind of a, “Huh, I didn’t know that I come off that way,” thing.

  13. angelawd says:

    My tip? If you think you may be misunderstood, call or meet with someone in person, instead of emailing them.

    My story? Ugh, a recent painful one. I participate in well-known social media sites and found a blogger with an interesting point of view – though very different than mine. I welcomed the opportunity to try to understand her point of view and responded to several of her blog posts. When she responded to my comments, she said she wanted to understand my opposite view – but her responses were verbally abusive, littered with sarcastic and rude comments about the ignorance and arrogance of “my kind of people”, and switched issues whenever I made a good point.

    I patiently stuck to the initial topic without adding any slurs to her opinion, until I found a thread on that social media site where I’d found her blog. Her comments pointed out me and my blog, misrepresting my point of view and saying I was a hypocrite. At that point, I realized that no matter how honestly and carefully I communicated with her, she was determined to misunderstand and disrespect me because of her own perspective and problems. So I deleted all my comments from her site and removed the suggestion from my own blog that she might provide an interesting perspective for those open-minded people who want to hear a differnt point of view.

    Oh, I wish that was the end of it. She began posting comments on my site, posts on her own site and the social media site specifically about me. She stopped once I emailed her to tell her I’d made a mistake in engaging in conversation with her and that I expected us to have no further contact.

    It’s easy to forget that the world is full of crazies, and the Internet actually makes it easier to come in contact with them. My learning from this experience is to cut and run when you realize that you’re dealing online with an irrational and abusive person – the situation won’t improve!

    angelawd’s last blog post..Light up my life!

  14. Jenny Burr says:

    I have to agree that it can be quite a shock to read some comments that people actually decide to leave at a site or hearing people admit that they do send off emails that can be just as demeaning. It’s a shame really, when our writing could serve to encourage, teach and have other postitive aspects that would benefit others.

    Jenny Burr’s last blog post..Researchers Top Ten Life Stress

  15. Heh. This is about to be my first blog post, actually, on manners. Not this exact topic, just manners as regards, oh, I don’t know, disappearing for weeks without notice. :)

    I mean, you know. If one were to theoretically do such a thing.

    Come play with me, James! I’m online all day and Race and Liv are weeks behind! Let’s catch them up! Where aaaaaare yoooooooouu?

    Tei – Rogue Ink’s last blog post..Dirty Laundry in the Writing Room

  16. Kelly says:

    He’s waiting for your new site to go up.

    Oh, no, that’s me,

    Kelly’s last blog post..Tip of the Week: Do More

  17. James says:

    @ Tei – You’re back? You’re BACK?? AND you want to play??!

    WOOHOOOOO! Official screw-off day everyone! Ta-ta!!

  18. Hi James – I was just thinking what you said. And you’re saying Kelly’s like us too. Will have to check out her blog also.

    I’m so glad you didn’t stop blogging permanent. I only popped by on the off-chance that you might have posted something and you’ve came back completely. Knew you couldn’t disappear for long.

    Cath Lawson’s last blog post..Make Money Online & Screw The Middleman

  19. --Deb (@__Deb) says:

    Amen. Rudeness is one of my pet peeves. I’m willing to accept and ignore certain amounts of rudeness based on different cultures, hurried schedules, and tone of voice not coming through properly in an email. We’re all busy people, and sometimes we cut things too short. Fine. That’s understood. But the outright, “I couldn’t care less” kind of rudeness of people who only think of what’s convenient for themselves? Drives me nuts. Surely mine wasn’t the only mother to teach her kids to be considerate of other people’s feelings? (Which, judging by the wealth of posts you’ve written on the subject, she was not.)

    –Deb’s last blog post..How to Prevent Equipment Failures from Ruining Your Writing

  20. I had a new client this winter that began attacking me via email. Her first volley impugned my integrity and every communication thereafter was the same. No matter what I did or said, she attacked me personally. Huh? What was this about?
    I reply to these kind of things with heightened politeness. Every email, ever hand written note. I step back, carefully compose, recheck. Even though the angry little cartoon character in my head is throwing things and thinking of nasty little words to apply, it is beyond rare that I will actually call someone an ass in public. VERY RARE… ahem… but certain people pushing certain buttons .. let’s say it is an elite club :) ….well back to this story…. this woman was the dictionary definition of just that, an ass, which she translated smoothly into bullying behavior. She had the full bully going.
    No one, no one gets away with that with me. But this is a client. Word of mouth and my name are at stake. So my policy is to go super diplomatic.
    I couldn’t figure out why she was so upset until I found one little piece of the puzzle. She did not realize how long it took for oil paint to dry. Simple. She was new to collecting. I tried to think of any circumstances where her complaint would make sense. BIngo, she had missed the part where I explained that. Did not even see it although it was plainly written out.
    Did she apologize? No. Did she see her mistake? Yes. Could she admit it? No. Did I fire her? Yes, but politely, after I delivered. She kept buying. If she was so unhappy why was she continuing to collect? She had issues that had nothing to do with me. The personal attacks were way out of line, and took up way to much time. But I treated her with respect and courtesy all the way through. I just had to cut her loose.
    I have seen these people before. They do not trust and yet feel very entitled to discounts and special considerations.
    This is when the Soup Nazi in disguise has to come out. A very diplomatic no soup for you. Than I can devote my energies to keeping my ideal and better clients more fully satisfied.
    Civility. Huge. Part of my mission statement. So I will go so far, but after that…not so much. No more soup for them.

    Janice C Cartier’s last blog post..A Template for Goal Setting

  21. Going back to the title of this article, I think it’s important for experienced Internet users who email, write blog articles, or whatever to remember not everyone knows what they know about conducting conversations over the Internet.

    My uncle is the perfect example. He’s a very successful entrepreneur and has taught me a thing or two about business. But man – when it comes to the Internet, he’s clueless. He hasn’t read all the links above. So when he does send out an email (that takes him 30 minutes to type out), he doesn’t know all the inside secrets. It’s important for us business owners to remember this when customers send replies that are in our views rude. (I think this was in one of your articles listed above).

    Timing is always important, too – and this is something we have a hard time with when working through email and blogs and never really know your customers, readers, clients, etc.

    Ideally, you want to sell or persuade your customer in some way when they are in a good mood, not stressed, and open to feedback.

    I use to sell guitars, amps, drums and all that and I could read people as I talked with them and worked them through a sell. I also sold and set up corporations and other business structures to businesses all over the world, none of which I ever met face-to-face. The two methods in which I communicated and observed my customers varied between these two professions.

    With the former, I could tell if someone was having a bad day and would work my “magic” around that.

    We don’t have this luxury through emails and blog comments. If you hit someone up with something at the wrong time (i.e. just after a spousal fight, kids misbehaving, just got screwed at the car dealership, a flat beer) your what otherwise would be a well received email could be read in a completely different way than you intended.

    I think your basic outline at the bottom of this post is the only way to go, but nothing is full-proof, unfortunately.

    As for my experience, I’ve had a recent conversation through email that hit me at the wrong time, I responded, and then felt like shit for an entire weekend because I made the other person feel bad who had my best interests at heart, and that sucks.

    The Internet is tricky. It doesn’t matter how experienced you are or how many post you write on manners, we are all emotional beings trying to communicate through a system of 0s and 1s.

    The problem is, it’s also the most efficient way to conduct business.

    John Hoff – eVentureBiz’s last blog post..How To Buy A House Like A Real Estate Investor: Part 8 – Good Terms vs. Low Price

  22. @ Janice – it’s interesting how people act when they are the customer as opposed to the business owner. The sad thing is, it’s usually the jerks who get away with getting more than the nice person who says they understand and are willing to work with you.

    You did the best thing you could have done – not lose your cool, because once you do that, the “bullies” seem to go in even more of attack mode. I just picture their faces getting all red and steam coming out of their ears.

    John Hoff – eVentureBiz’s last blog post..How To Buy A House Like A Real Estate Investor: Part 8 – Good Terms vs. Low Price

  23. John-Thanks. I like to picture Yosemite Sam jumping up and down trying to get his way. There’s just no up side to jumping into that.

    Somewhere somebody let them get away with it or it worked, unfortunately. I generally don’t let Yosemite Sams stay too long. I like my good clients way too much to let the Sams eat up my time and energy.

    Some one called me out in a comment a short while ago. Actually insulted all the commenters on a post. . He had all kinds of choices in ways to make a point, but he picked insulting our intelligence. Dammit, it felt as though he had smacked me on the cheek with a leather glove. We were all “playing nice”. Walk away, don’t engage…nope, I am from the south, it was an insult plain and clear….walk away…couldn’t …so I chose what I thought was a light response. Sticking to the topic. Nothing personal. He came back with another insult. Ahh, I have seen this media wannabe type before too. Lots of bravado, some achievement to back it up, but grace? No. Courtesy? Very limited. Intelligence? Yes. Position? Yes. Potential? Enormous. But he never came back to answer, just hit and ran. Not so cool in my book.
    What’s up with that?

    Janice C Cartier’s last blog post..A Template for Goal Setting

  24. LOL I think I’ve seen that before on this blog.

    What I don’t like is when you ask a question, in a forum for example, and what might seem obvious to some, aren’t necessarily obvious to you and people respond to your question like you’re stupid.

    I posted a question about osCommerce a few weeks back in a forum and I had a lot of helpful suggestions and then one guy comes along and says “Did you LOOK IN THE ADMIN PANEL? You should LOOK first before you ASK!”

    Turns out this guy was an osCommerce expert, so to speak. He didn’t even bother to tell me “here’s where to look,” instead he bothered to tell me I’m an idiot for not looking there . . . which I did but just missed it. Grrrr

    John Hoff – eVentureBiz’s last blog post..How To Buy A House Like A Real Estate Investor: Part 8 – Good Terms vs. Low Price

  25. Marelisa says:

    You know, I worked in labor relations for about 5 years (dealing with unions) and every letter that I wrote I had to reread several times before sending to make sure union officials wouldn’t get offended and cut off negotiations because of some perceived slight. I just wrote a blog post on laughter and how it helps connect people. The problem with anything that is written, whether it be a letter, an e-mail, or a comment, is precisely that a lot of the factors that help soften what we say are difficult to get across in written form. I guess that’s why you usually see so many smiley faces in the comment section.

    I had someone try to post two incredibly offensive comments on my blog, but I just deleted them. I also felt really sorry for that person.

    James, maybe you should write a blog etiquette e-book :-)

    Marelisa’s last blog post..How Gratitude Can Change Your Life

  26. Ouch! So unnecessary. I often wonder what it would be like to just be totally snarky rude for a day…What do they get out of it? What’s the pay off for being rude?

    As James says above sometimes it is a cultural difference, perceived versus actual rudeness. And since we have so much more reach, those differences have to occur more frequently.

    But there is also that POV that attack, controversy, PITA attitude is a way to go.

    Janice C Cartier’s last blog post..A Template for Goal Setting

  27. Oh the ouch was for John, not Marelisa. :) See smiley face in use.

    Janice C Cartier’s last blog post..A Template for Goal Setting

  28. Sam says:

    In my own blog I didn’t discuss with unfriendly persons. I just deleted the post.

    Well, that is, until a local group of wannabe politicians started to attack me on my own blog because my opinion was different from theirs – made me just switch off the whole comment system – most comments in my blog where not adding to the content anyway…

  29. Good critical thinking precedes clear, polite communication. For the opposite of that, see Digg and Reddit comments. Not hitting “send” or “publish” in an emotional state is a very good idea (and as Naomi pointed out once, not being sauced helps, as well).

    A funny conundrum on professionalism: many of us are often so bad at communicating accurately with words that our words are unprofessional, as James pointed out. But using emoticons is often considered unprofessional, too. :D

    I guess that’s why there’s so much work for professional writers.

    Michael Martine | Remarkablogger’s last blog post..SEO Ninja Skills Prevent Armageddon

  30. Kazi Dolezal says:

    I consider myself a very polite person. I have however had the unfortunate experience of purchasing a web template for wordpress that I have never been able to get working. In the marketing promo, the company offered all this support and help but once I had paid for it, I never received a response to my emails for help.

    I wasted several hundred dollars and have never been able to use what I purchased. Unfortunately in my despair and frustration in regard to loosing my money, my email was, I’m afraid, short.

    This interaction with a business that I thought I could trust, has created some resentment … it’s hard to remain polite when you feel ripped off.

  31. James says:

    @ Kazi – That burns me. People who don’t answer their emails after a sale have no business running a business.

    I will offer this advice: Once bitten, twice shy, yes. But sitting on the resentment of owning something that doesn’t work doesn’t help you personally. Find a service provider you feel deserves your trust and take a second chance at getting your template up and running. It shouldn’t be a wasted investment.

  32. Amy says:

    James — I’m sure you’ve read enough of my rants on the subject of online manners to know my thoughts on this one. But I have to confess, the reason I first checked out your blog was because you were so misunderstood on Deb’s blog. I’d see your comments and the way people would respond to you and think “This dude’s as misunderstood as I am.” So, I had to click through and stalk you. (Good marketing tactic, perhaps?) ;-) (And yes, I realize this has little to do with manners, but since when do I stay on topic?)

    I tend to be sarcastic and quick to rant, and that tends to get me a bad rep for obvious reasons. I also tend to be very obnoxious, which is probably why people frequently ask me if I’ve been drinking — although I haven’t been since 1996. :-)

    But the best is the rep I quickly got on forums (which later translated into blog comments) for being a snob. I honestly still don’t know how it is that I seem to come across as a snob in type. I answer someone’s question, intending to be helpful, and am then perceived as a know-it-all trying to be all my-way-or-the-highway, which isn’t how I am at all. You’d think for a writer I’d be better at acting prim and proper and writing in a way where people wouldn’t perceive me as a jackass, but hey… :-|

    At least I get cool nicknames like Pandora out of it. :-D

    Amy’s last blog post..Keyword Analysis: Can’t Do Without These Gems

  33. I have only gotten one flamingly rude comment and Thank God he didn’t leave it on my blog. Somehow he actually sent it to my regular email address. I assume it was from a male. It could have been a female. He didn’t use the title of Anonymous like some readers do. After sending me 2 emails calling my articles the rants of a schizophrenic person, he sent me a 3rd email and said, “Oh by the way, this isn’t even my name. It belongs to someone else.” The entire tone of the emails was done purely to hurt. At first, I thought he just misunderstood what I was saying. I explained. The second email that he sent, I realized nothing that I could say was going to make a difference. I didn’t answer the second or the third and last email. I decided not to be hurt by his comments. They were just someone else’s opinion. Most people that read my blog seem to get some good from it or I assume so from the comments that I get. I appreciate the time that my readers take to leave comments on my blog. It lets me know that my writing does make sense to someone. I don’t expect everyone to share my opinion and it is nice to hear when someone does get my message.

    Patricia – Spiritual Journey Of A Lightworker’s last blog post..We Can Only See Who We Are

  34. James says:

    @ Patricia – I think that your niche has it very hard. There’s always strong opinion and intolerance in that area. Reminds me of the post I did on a homeless man – it was picked up by a another blog (a religious blog) and I was pretty much flogged in public by the commentators coming from there.

    A definitely interesting experience and not one I’d like to repeat. I’m glad that the person stopped sending you emails.

  35. You can always state your opinion without being mean and hurtful and rude. I expect that. My views are different from a lot of people and I know that. You can state your opinion without name calling.

    Patricia – Spiritual Journey Of A Lightworker’s last blog post..We Can Only See Who We Are

  36. Carolyn Bahm says:

    James, you’re making me sorry I’ve been saving your posts for when I had time to savor them. I need to make time for them each day. :o )

    One thing I try to evangelize is my reaction to the tired old “freedom of speech” argument: Yes, I tell people — you’re free to speak however you like. And other people have the freedom to react however THEY like. You don’t get to dictate that they react with total acceptance. Freedom goes both ways. Then I smile, even though on the inside I’m channeling Tourette’s in their direction.

    Although I sometimes stumble on this principle, my personal rule of thumb is to restrain my hot temper and razor-sharp words when someone’s being an ass, because 99% of the time my relationship with the other person is more important than the point under discussion. I will try to communicate again, more clearly, and to empathize with the other person’s circumstances and point of view. If their assdom continues, I’ll just walk away from what clearly isn’t a real conversation anyway. At this point in my life, it takes a *lot* for me to pop a gasket and say something I regret, either in print or in person. I wish the bite-your-tongue approach were more common!

    I was particularly touched by Angelawd’s comments about trying to talk with someone who has a different POV. Too many times, I’ve tried to do the same with the same results. Some people see it as a challenge when you say, “I have a different view but I’d like to know more about yours.” Funny — that doesn’t SOUND like “Insult me,” but there’s no accounting for some people’s hearing problems.

    I ran into something similar via phone in an old job. I was known for being accommodating, but this one ass … well, I finally said, “Let me interrupt you a minute. I’m willing to listen to what you have to say and to help you. But if you continue to swear at me, I’ll have to disconnect and invite you to call back when you can be civil.” He continued, and I made good. Then he called BACK and said, in suspicious tones, “We must have been accidentally disconnected,” and I said, in dulcet tones, “Oh, no, I disconnected because you were being discourteous, as I said … weren’t you listening?” He continued on in his apoplectic way, and I had to tell him, “I see that you want me to disconnect again. Good day, and feel free to call back at another time.”

    My co-workers, who had all dealt with this person (an abusive and bullying co-worker, not a client), startled me when they stood up and clapped as I hung up gently again. (The rude guy also got it. He cooled off for a half hour and called back, MUCH nicer this time.)

    Carolyn Bahm’s last blog post..47?365, No. 65 – Karl F.

  37. @ Carolyn- Applause. Applause. Brava!!! Love this story. Thanks.

    Janice C Cartier’s last blog post..A Goal Setting Template- Part 4

  38. James says:

    @ Carolyn – The “your perspective/my perspective” issue is one that I’m currently struggling with myself. That, my friend, is a mess of snakes, and learning to truly be able to accept that someone else’s perspective isn’t mine – and I mean TRULY – is difficult. Most people, I think, just don’t get it or can’t.

    The hang-up thing? Hehehe I did that once. Three times. I sat there whistling and hanging up until finally the person stopped snarking (and calling back). It felt great.

 

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