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	<title>Comments on: Screw Community</title>
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		<title>By: Matthew Newnham</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-56764</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Newnham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-56764</guid>
		<description>Great post, James - well said, as usual.

Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher is quoted infamously as saying, &quot;There is no such thing as society.&quot; ** And that single remark has remained the subject of heated debate, 30 years on. (Did she really say that? Did she mean it? What did she mean?)

I think there are elements of that debate here, too... since &quot;society&quot; and &quot;community&quot; invoke similar reactions...

The thing that seems difficult to address in a balanced way, in the midst of often polarising views, is that regardless of where you sit in the socio-political debate (or everyday life, for that matter) is that belonging to community is a funny mixture of a birthright and a privilege.

Most of us are all for opportunity, and don&#039;t like to see exclusion. 

And yet in our desire for freedom of opportunity, we don&#039;t manage to speak in measured tones of the responsibility to contribute. Contribution hasn&#039;t been a vote-winner since I don&#039;t know when. (Even that famous JFK speech about asking what you can do for your country was made *after* he was elected!)

Shame we&#039;ve lost the habit of fair value exchange, so that these debates have to come up in the first place.

But I guess that&#039;s part of the human condition. We just don&#039;t have to support those aspects that don&#039;t serve.


** Side note:

Thatcher&#039;s supporters say that the quote was taken wildly out of of context, that she was actually addressing a tendency for some people to blame their habits and situations on general conditions in society.

On the other hand, this quote is also seen by many others as legitimising what became a rampant rise in &quot;me first&quot; materialist values in the 80&#039;s (a la Gordon Gecko&#039;s &quot;Greed is good...&quot; mantra).

Not surprisingly, the Global Financial Crisis (and I&#039;m sure there are other more interesting versions of GFC) and shocking crimes (e.g. Columbine) bring out calls for a return to community values and behaviours. And about time too, say many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, James &#8211; well said, as usual.</p>
<p>Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher is quoted infamously as saying, &#8220;There is no such thing as society.&#8221; ** And that single remark has remained the subject of heated debate, 30 years on. (Did she really say that? Did she mean it? What did she mean?)</p>
<p>I think there are elements of that debate here, too&#8230; since &#8220;society&#8221; and &#8220;community&#8221; invoke similar reactions&#8230;</p>
<p>The thing that seems difficult to address in a balanced way, in the midst of often polarising views, is that regardless of where you sit in the socio-political debate (or everyday life, for that matter) is that belonging to community is a funny mixture of a birthright and a privilege.</p>
<p>Most of us are all for opportunity, and don&#8217;t like to see exclusion. </p>
<p>And yet in our desire for freedom of opportunity, we don&#8217;t manage to speak in measured tones of the responsibility to contribute. Contribution hasn&#8217;t been a vote-winner since I don&#8217;t know when. (Even that famous JFK speech about asking what you can do for your country was made *after* he was elected!)</p>
<p>Shame we&#8217;ve lost the habit of fair value exchange, so that these debates have to come up in the first place.</p>
<p>But I guess that&#8217;s part of the human condition. We just don&#8217;t have to support those aspects that don&#8217;t serve.</p>
<p>** Side note:</p>
<p>Thatcher&#8217;s supporters say that the quote was taken wildly out of of context, that she was actually addressing a tendency for some people to blame their habits and situations on general conditions in society.</p>
<p>On the other hand, this quote is also seen by many others as legitimising what became a rampant rise in &#8220;me first&#8221; materialist values in the 80&#8242;s (a la Gordon Gecko&#8217;s &#8220;Greed is good&#8230;&#8221; mantra).</p>
<p>Not surprisingly, the Global Financial Crisis (and I&#8217;m sure there are other more interesting versions of GFC) and shocking crimes (e.g. Columbine) bring out calls for a return to community values and behaviours. And about time too, say many.</p>
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		<title>By: Geek Dads Weekly #20 &#8211; We&#8217;re Almost Legal!</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-35880</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Dads Weekly #20 &#8211; We&#8217;re Almost Legal!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-35880</guid>
		<description>[...] Screw Community [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Screw Community [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How to Build Your Blog Community &#124; Men With Pens</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29364</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Build Your Blog Community &#124; Men With Pens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29364</guid>
		<description>[...] the past few weeks, I&#8217;ve been discussing the blogging community, how it&#8217;s being misused and abused, and how those who don&#8217;t abuse it have become my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the past few weeks, I&#8217;ve been discussing the blogging community, how it&#8217;s being misused and abused, and how those who don&#8217;t abuse it have become my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29242</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29242</guid>
		<description>@ Lizbeth - Yeah, that&#039;s another example of spongers - the clients that guilt trip you into lower rates. Sucks, that. 

@ Kathy - Oh, now that&#039;s an interesting application, eh? I&#039;ve had a few of those, as well. They come off looking like joint venture kind of things and apparently the joints at work are all mine. Um, no.

@ Mr. Lich - Well, I think it&#039;s more in the online world than the offline one. People wouldn&#039;t walk up to you on the street and ask you, y&#039;know? But yeah. It&#039;s becoming prevalent throughout the &#039;net.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lizbeth &#8211; Yeah, that&#8217;s another example of spongers &#8211; the clients that guilt trip you into lower rates. Sucks, that. </p>
<p>@ Kathy &#8211; Oh, now that&#8217;s an interesting application, eh? I&#8217;ve had a few of those, as well. They come off looking like joint venture kind of things and apparently the joints at work are all mine. Um, no.</p>
<p>@ Mr. Lich &#8211; Well, I think it&#8217;s more in the online world than the offline one. People wouldn&#8217;t walk up to you on the street and ask you, y&#8217;know? But yeah. It&#8217;s becoming prevalent throughout the &#8216;net.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisbeth Tanz</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29219</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisbeth Tanz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29219</guid>
		<description>So, I&#039;m a bit behind in reading Men with Pens posts. Got to this one and FACE PALM! Wow, I can so relate to this - and I&#039;m not even an uber successful writer...yet. I don&#039;t mind pitching in for the greater good - when I&#039;m part of the greater good. But when things turn ugly, that is, when people begin to take advantage or, heaven forbid, expect me to continue to do things for free or at low cost, they seem offended when I say &quot;no.&quot; This even has roots in my client base. After working with a company (as a freelancer) for over 3 years, they approached me with a request that I reduce my rates because &quot;they didn&#039;t want to pay so much and they could get someone to do the job at 1/4 of what I charge.&quot; I not-so-subtly suggested that they go hire that other person - what a deal! They balked, I gave in a bit, and will now be letting them go as a client at the end of this year. (Don&#039;t tell them, they don&#039;t know yet.) Point is - I can be a sucker for the &quot;greater good&quot; or own up to the fact that I do, indeed, need to earn not only a living wage, but a fulfilling wage. Still working on that. Thanks for another great post and for making me think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I&#8217;m a bit behind in reading Men with Pens posts. Got to this one and FACE PALM! Wow, I can so relate to this &#8211; and I&#8217;m not even an uber successful writer&#8230;yet. I don&#8217;t mind pitching in for the greater good &#8211; when I&#8217;m part of the greater good. But when things turn ugly, that is, when people begin to take advantage or, heaven forbid, expect me to continue to do things for free or at low cost, they seem offended when I say &#8220;no.&#8221; This even has roots in my client base. After working with a company (as a freelancer) for over 3 years, they approached me with a request that I reduce my rates because &#8220;they didn&#8217;t want to pay so much and they could get someone to do the job at 1/4 of what I charge.&#8221; I not-so-subtly suggested that they go hire that other person &#8211; what a deal! They balked, I gave in a bit, and will now be letting them go as a client at the end of this year. (Don&#8217;t tell them, they don&#8217;t know yet.) Point is &#8211; I can be a sucker for the &#8220;greater good&#8221; or own up to the fact that I do, indeed, need to earn not only a living wage, but a fulfilling wage. Still working on that. Thanks for another great post and for making me think.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy Herrmann</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29166</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Herrmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29166</guid>
		<description>James - Great post!

I have a related situation in my IT consulting business.  Pleas from prospects to lower fees because of all the referrals I&#039;m going to get from said prospect.  Don&#039;t have any contact information or introductions...but nifty promises of incoming business just as soon as we work cheap and &quot;do a great job&quot; of making their business better.
.-= Kathy Herrmann&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://community.intellicore-design.com/blog/2009/9/30/online-strategy-divas-talk-biz.html&quot;&gt;Online Strategy Divas Talk Biz&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James &#8211; Great post!</p>
<p>I have a related situation in my IT consulting business.  Pleas from prospects to lower fees because of all the referrals I&#8217;m going to get from said prospect.  Don&#8217;t have any contact information or introductions&#8230;but nifty promises of incoming business just as soon as we work cheap and &#8220;do a great job&#8221; of making their business better.<br />
.-= Kathy Herrmann&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://community.intellicore-design.com/blog/2009/9/30/online-strategy-divas-talk-biz.html">Online Strategy Divas Talk Biz</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: MrLich</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29162</link>
		<dc:creator>MrLich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29162</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Many of these people have a self-assured attitude, too. They really think they have the right to ask for free goods. They feel they deserve it. Theyâ€™re shocked when I decline. Theyâ€™re hurt and dismayed. Theyâ€™re disappointed.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Unfortunately, the sense of entitlement (especially here in the US) seems to be growing all the time. It&#039;s already at levels that sadden me, and it just seems to be increasing. I really hope that pendulum swings soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Many of these people have a self-assured attitude, too. They really think they have the right to ask for free goods. They feel they deserve it. Theyâ€™re shocked when I decline. Theyâ€™re hurt and dismayed. Theyâ€™re disappointed.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Unfortunately, the sense of entitlement (especially here in the US) seems to be growing all the time. It&#8217;s already at levels that sadden me, and it just seems to be increasing. I really hope that pendulum swings soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Community Spirit in the Blogosphere &#124; Men With Pens</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29106</link>
		<dc:creator>Community Spirit in the Blogosphere &#124; Men With Pens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29106</guid>
		<description>[...] week, I wrote about deadbeats in the community. I even swore. In English. It was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week, I wrote about deadbeats in the community. I even swore. In English. It was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Twitter Weekly Updates for 2009-09-28 - John Dilbeck And Friends - Recommendations, observations, and musings about Internet marketing.</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29103</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Weekly Updates for 2009-09-28 - John Dilbeck And Friends - Recommendations, observations, and musings about Internet marketing.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29103</guid>
		<description>[...] reading: Screw Community - http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reading: Screw Community &#8211; <a href="http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community" rel="nofollow">http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://menwithpens.ca/screw-community/#comment-29093</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://menwithpens.ca/?p=3626#comment-29093</guid>
		<description>@ Jim - Sure thing - I&#039;ll guest, you pay $75. Sound like a plan? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jim &#8211; Sure thing &#8211; I&#8217;ll guest, you pay $75. Sound like a plan? <img src='http://menwithpens.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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