How to Shut People Out By Shutting Down
I’m noticing a disturbing situation in the blogosphere, and I think it’s time to have a rant.
I know some of you might think, “Aw, look! How cute! Harry’s being angry.” Even James gave me a virtual pat on the head when I asked him, “Do you think this post is too much?”
Make no mistake. I’m bothered.
I don’t comment very much on people’s blogs, but I do read and I do observe what happens around me in the blogosphere. Some people I once looked up to are making foolhardy decisions. I still like these people, but I don’t agree with their actions or words – or the effects they might have on other people and their lives.
No Comment
A popular marketing blogger has shut down her comment section. The reasons she gave were harshly worded, an insult to dedicated readers and a slap in the face to bloggers who welcome comments.
Apparently, her comment section wasn’t contributing enough to discussions and wasn’t making people feel welcome. She also didn’t feel that what others had to say was important. She outright called her audience lame.
Gee, thanks. I appreciate that.
I agree that comment sections are work to maintain. It also takes work to create a comment section that is welcoming and friendly. We know. That takes time away from the core business, sure.
But without people, your business is nothing. And when you blog and sell services using your blog to market yourself, your business is all about people.
Comment sections are also about mutual respect. Your readers respected you enough to take the time to read your post; the least you can do is acknowledge that and respond in some way. A simple, “Thanks everyone!” can be enough in some cases.
Let’s say you’re a blogger and a commentator leaves what you feel is a harmful comment. Well, get your ass in gear and do something. Don’t just let the comment sit there while you bitch about it. Tell the person why you disagree – and hold up your arguments with solid points.
You’re supposed to be the authority on the subject, so act like one.
Wallflowers Make Pretty Scenery
Another point of contention brought up was that comment sections can intimidate people from speaking up or adding their views.
This is no blog owner’s problem. There will always be people who haven’t overcome their fears and learned to say what they feel. There will always be those who do nothing but sit on the sidelines wishing they could jump in to have fun too.
The truth is that they can.
No one stops people from commenting but the people themselves. All bloggers can do is be a gracious host and make everyone feel welcome. The rest is up to the individual – so why exclude others who aren’t afraid to speak up?
See No Evil, Hear No Evil
Not long ago, someone told us to be careful about the advice we give. We’re in the big leagues now, and many people believe our advice is gospel.
We believe our readers are intelligent, and we know people can think for themselves. We present our experiences and thoughts. We allow readers the respect of deciding whether they agree or not, and we’re open to discussion.
We’re even mature enough to know that there are many ways to accomplish similar goals; our way isn’t the only one.
Shutting down comments on a blog to avoid facing criticism, justifying opinions or debating advice just conveys, “My advice is the only advice that matters. And I don’t want to hear your opinion.”
Let’s face it: A blog without a comment section is nothing more than a personal soapbox.
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I agree with you with one caveat. For me, I’ll happily debate comments on my blog so long as the exchange is professional without any insults or nastiness. That’s just me – I love great conversation but my blog is my home; I expect people who come in will show me the same respect I’d offer them.
Disagreements spark understanding; nastiness results in eviction. Life’s too short.
Data points, Barbara
Barbara Lings last blog post..How to destroy relationship abuse
Thank you, Harry. I was afraid I was the only one who felt frustrated by this. Glad to know it’s not just me.
Sure, I may be a wallflower most of the time, but I always enjoy reading the discussion on blog posts – sometimes even more than the post itself. Taking that away removes a large part of the fun.
Glad to know your comments section is here to stay.
“Apparently, her comment section wasn’t contributing enough to discussions and wasn’t making people feel welcome. She also didn’t feel that what others had to say was important. She outright called her audience lame.”
This was a blog about marketing. Now it’s not a blog. We can all read the print edition of the business section for the same result. I saw this as a diva move – some kind of reverse psychological tactic aimed at the low self-esteem niche. This skews the equation. The site may be a soapbox for a period of time, but I’d look for it to change even further as a commercial venture, selling a product more overtly. And that’s okay. If the interactive component isn’t working, you still gotta sell something somehow, right?
Successful blogs offer a combination: greater good mixed with self-promotion, glued with interaction and spiced with entertainment. I’d love to see stats in a few months. If you wanted to be really snarky, you could start up a parallel blog and just comment back and forth on her posts. But that would feed the little narcissist, now wouldn’t it, just the same. Uh…speaking of snarky…
Betsys last blog post..SURVIVOR
Hear, hear.
‘Nuff said.
-Brett
Brett Legrees last blog post..they live.
Stopping comments struck me as an “I’ve made it; now I’m pulling up the drawbridge” move on the part of the blogger in question. I was disappointed in her.
Jean Gogolins last blog post.."I Haven’t Decided Yet"
i remember the first time i got a comment tearing me a new a** about a post i had done and just how wrong i was about endorsing the bill i was endorsing. i freaked! it took me a 24 hours to decide to post the comment. the entire time i had been blogging i had only received praise and love from my own little blogging cocoon. it was just such a shock that someone would disagree with my almightyness and then take the time to post a comment saying so! i didn’t know what to do. i was frantic. finally i reconciled my inner evils and decided this was, in fact, what i was blogging for…for the interaction, so i posted it and have since received many more negatives about said bill. so many with proof that i am re-thinking my position on the bill. this is what it’s all about isn’t it? if you don’t have the balls to take the criticism then maybe you should remove comments from your blog. i personally treasure every single comment i get…even the one’s who don’t think i’m so great!
prins last blog post..Here it is–A Section by Section Breakdown of the Bailout
Harry,
I love her, and I know she’s had some rough treatment from a very tiny minority, but the post you refer to left me breathless, just as if I’d been slapped. The exact metaphor I used when talking to a friend later that day. I disagreed that her comment section wasn’t contributing, but of course everybody has to find their own way. It might have been better if she had left the question marks in the air—only friends would have been bold enough to email and ask. After that post, I felt much less like a friend than I had.
“Another point of contention brought up was that comment sections can intimidate people from speaking up or adding their views.”
I’ve said it here and elsewhere: You do your best as the blog’s author, and worrying more than that is hogwash. A rousing commentary will probably get as many folks of one personality psyched to jump in as it will turn off some others, but one thing it does is energize the author and the readers/ commenters.
There is NO substitute for the learning the author can do from encouraging an awesome comment section.
I’ve learned so much, and had to ponder my positions (to defend or bend), at my blog, that I sometimes call it “our” blog. It isn’t really mine. I’m devoted to growing my comment section and MCE’s readers are devoted to strengthening and broadening the conversation.
That’s what a blog is. It’s not a mag article, it’s a conversation. I certainly support people who need to make those kinds of decisions, but it’s one I personally could never make. Thanks for pointing out the elephant in the room (with class), Harry.
Regards,
Kelly
Kellys last blog post..Tip of the Week: Can You Do It, When It’s Been Done?
I don’t agree. Comments are just one way of creating community and interacting with one’s readership. They aren’t the only way. (If you didn’t have comments enabled, I could have emailed you or posted this on my blog with a link to this article.)
Here’s some food for thought:
http://blogsavvy.net/an-argument-for-getting-rid-of-comments/
And the uber-article on what makes for good blogging :
http://alistapart.com/articles/writeliving
The latter article was written by someone who started blogging when you were still in short pants. He’s still going strong, sans comments.
Harry,
I think this post is a mild rant with many good observations. A blog without a comment section is nothing more than an online copy of a print article. Many online newspaper sites even allow comments on their articles even though there may not be a community with discussion similar to a blog. Many times I get as much out of the comment section as the post itself. The comment section definitely requires time and maintenance as control by itself doesn’t work well here – it’s more of a carefully managed environment that encourages comments from the readers in a fun, informal, and respectful way. It’s as you say in this post and do on this blog. Thanks.
Mark
I don’t know the blogger in question very well, although we’ve interacted a bit via social media and such. I do not agree with her approach, but I’m not sitting in her shoes, either.
What the change does is, as the author suggests, firmly establishes that the blog is a one way communication. It also highlights (clarifies?) the purpose of the blog is to support a commercial enterprise. Finally, it also makes it clear that there’s no community at the blog, or else it starts and stops according to the blog owner’s wishes.
If the blog owner still wanted to have an outlet for conversation and two-way communication, she could start forums or a Ning group to keep that going. I don’t see any intent or desire to do that.
I can appreciate the desire to focus on the things that are most important to you, including time and priority management. I also get the idea that what’s in your comments will have an impact on what you write (this can be both negative OR positive, depending on your frame of mind) – as guys like Godin and Pavlina have written.
Like it or lump it, it’s up to the blog owner. On a personal level, I feel like a personal touch and part of the USP for that enterprise is gone now. So be it. Maybe it wasn’t really there and it was an illusion created by the blogger’s writing style.
Que sera, sera. Hopefully this change gets them closer to where they want to be. Personally, I think they are going to lose something significant in the process. Who knows, maybe she’ll change her mind.
Mark Dykemans last blog post..Do you have a creative itch that wants scratching?
I can’t imagine shutting down my comment section. Publishing your post is stepping to the podium and clearing your throat. Comments are mingling among the crowd. My site has over seventeen-hundred comments in ten weeks. I may not be able to answer until the end of the day, but I answer every one. Blogging is still new to me, but comments have been the biggest surprise. I can’t fathom showing my audience such disrespect.
Writer Dads last blog post..Check Your Email…
I want to say first off that we like the blogger as a person, despite not agreeing with the methods and strategies. That’s important to note and there’s a distinction involved.
I also don’t think that a lack of comment section is detrimental to a blog or a business, as Lisa pointed out.
What bothered me most about the decision was the condescension and the message of, “Go away. I have a business to run.” It was just rude. It wasn’t one of those tactical controversies. There’s a difference between controversy and plain basic manners. The tone wasn’t necessary.
I think people need to keep in mind that without people, there are no sales, no one to market to, no one to give advice to. I fully understand that closing down comments has its positive points. As a few have mentioned, Seth Godin doesn’t allow them either.
Then again, Seth Godin doesn’t make readers feel like they’re disrupting a business, upsetting his life and being a nuisance. I think this makes the difference.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with making decisions that save time and money and ultimately allow business owners to have better focus. That’s a good thing. But I feel there are right ways and less desirable ways to do so. Scorn and derision wouldn’t be approaches I would choose, because I recognize that readers and commentators may one day be clients, even if it takes 10 years.
Although I have comments enabled and welcome feedback I don’t think that every blogger has to do it. As your own post eloquently demonstrates, you can comment on a blog even when comments are shut down (even if I didn’t figure out what blog you’re talking about).
As a reader you can vote with your mouse. If you don’t like blogs without comments you don’t have to read them.
Wow, this post comes across as being very strong and emotionally laden. At least to me.
If I’m right, maybe you should talk to Naomi. I’d hate to think you guys would fall out over this.
If I’m not, then I don’t have to feel bad that two people I admire and respect are arguing. (Please, Mommy, Daddy, don’t fight!)
James | Dancing Geeks last blog post..The Lazy People series
@ James – Ha, don’t worry. We’re all mature enough to make distinctions between disagreeing with actions and opinions and the people involved. This post is no reflection at all on how we feel about the individual. It’s a post that debates certain actions and messages in business. Huge difference.
I agree with you, Harry. Without comment section, your blog is as good as static pages. Community of readers is what makes blog feels like home. Yes, it’s only one way of building a community, but how you are treating one community reflects how you are handling the relationship as a whole.
I’m pretty sure a lot of readers can feel that.
Then again, she may be having a hard time and just needs a break. I don’t know the blogger, so I can only hope she can get out of her downtime soon. There will be a lot of repairing to be done judging from what I read around here.
Oh I’m so easily pleased! Yay – no-one’s fighting.
Just disagreeing very firmly.
I did want to say that personally I don’t feel in the least bit slighted by it. I don’t know if that says more about me, or my involvement in the comments. Hmmm, what do you think?
James | Dancing Geeks last blog post..The Lazy People series
@James (both) – I feel that real friends have a responsibility to call each other out. Being that I don’t know the blogger in question very well (love her writing, though), I wouldn’t tap her on the shoulder and say “ahem, pardon me, but aren’t you being kind of an arse here?” Even if I thought she was being an arse. I’m sure that Harry and James know her better, so it’s only natural that they call her out here.
I don’t believe that the argument is whether or not one should disable comments. The biggest problem is that the virtual world is about as real as any other locale and some have emotions tied up with a comment section. It’s like your favorite coffee shop telling you to piss up a rope.
Personally, I would be disappointed if the Pen Men posted that they hated their comment section and told us where we could stick it. At that point, I wouldn’t even care about their business decisions–I just want to have intelligent conversation over my morning cup of coffee.
Whether you consider the comment section to be “valuable” or not, what possible harm does it do to leave it open, anyway? Again, I come from the knit-blogging world where most comments are responded to through email only, so there’s not always a whole lot of conversation going on down there, but people are still welcome to comment. What’s the harm?
As you say, it’s just excluding people as if they’re not important enough to YOU … rather like John McCain last week, who decided to concentrate his efforts on the “important” people in Washington rather than on the millions of potential voters who might not have individually loud voice, but who can make themselves heard “en masse!”
Hey bro, I appreciate your openness and willingness to discuss things that piss you off. I subscribed several weeks back or so and read the site almost daily.
I completely agree with your last comment, A blog without a comment section is nothing more than a personal soapbox. I personally don’t want to read a blog/site where interaction or feedback is shunned, in this case, not allowed. Also, I’ve been reading quietly behind the scenes, and this comment is my first at men with pens.
Miguel Wickerts last blog post..Bloggers: Want to Improve Your Writing ?
Seems to me shutting down the comments section defeats the very best thing about the internet, its interactivity. Without feedback, it might as well be a newspaper, radio program, tv show, or college lecture series. Blog writers should know “it’s not all about you.” It’s also about your readers, and we like hearing what each other has to say.
Well, Harry, if that’s as firm as you get, I think you are safe from having to attend anger management classes.
So, what’s the difference between a blog and a website? To me, a website provides information and/or sells something. A blog is an interaction of readers and writer. No comments, no blog. Correct?
Of course we are all free to change from a blog to a website, but there would be a professional way to announce that. Seeing as I am completely in the dark as to whom you are referring (the sky is very pretty in my world), I will take your word for it that it wasn’t handled in a professional manner.
Urban Panthers last blog post..You may mock me if you wish
@Urban Panther
I don’t think a blog can be solely defined as an interaction of readers and writer. Some blogs are defined that way, but strictly speaking a blog (as opposed to a static website) is simply a web log — or journal, or diary — of personal commentary. The only required input is the author’s.
Lisa Firke | Wild Keyss last blog post..A New Blog: the Firke Files
For the sake of clarity at this point, I’m going to assume the blog in question is Naomi’s. (Sorry, too many “her” and “she” flying around for my peace of mind.)
It sounds as if she felt her comments section was a) becoming detrimental to her business due to negativity, b) often attracting the wrong kinds of people and c) because of these two things was needlessly taking up more time than she was willing to take away from the actual work.
Granted, when you write in a way that attracts controversy (which is half of why I even read her blog in the first place, so I don’t see this as a bad thing), you’re going to attract some of the sorts of people who just want to argue with you, whether they know what they’re talking about or not. That’s a whole different type of commentator than your average blog gets, and dealing with those folks in your comments section is also going to take a lot more time, effort and emotion than most other blogs. I can see where it would start to wear on you and make you think, “Hey! Why the hell am I putting up with this crap when I have a business to run?”
I think a lot of the stress might come from the way the blog is written. I think it simply invites controversy, and because of this the comments section becomes very high maintenance. As she’s obviously not going to change her voice or style of writing just to lessen the controversy happening below the post, I can see where this would have been the next best idea.
I also see where Harry’s coming from as far as the “thanks a lot” reaction, because nowhere that I’ve seen, has she separated the “bad commentators” from the good, so everyone feels slighted. I’m assuming this was just an oversight when the post was written, and she was focusing only on the reasons for stopping comments. We all know how that can happen to even the best of us at times, yes?
Nicole Brunets last blog post..Gary: 2002
When Seth Godin shut off comments on his blog, the world pissed and moaned about how he’d turned his back on the spirit of blogging. More than a few claimed it’d be the end of his blog.
It’s still a top 20 blog. Why? Because what he offers is more valuable than the ability to interact.
So Naomi made a business decision. Meh. As long as she continues to offer something more valuable than the ability to interact, then what’s the real harm?
Hm. I don’t feel slighted. It’s a business decision. While her slot in the diplomatic corp may go to someone else, I can understand her making sure the ladder is against the right wall.
Her content is invaluable to me. And that’s what I am there for. Sure the comments are fun, but her ” promise ” is to deliver good sound marketing direction for small businesses in her own inimitable way.
Now I cannot imagine that she would do something that goes against the nature of that. So I am very curious to see this next tier happen.
Can’t a larger conversation take place with direct posts and links ?
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Even Before Coffee
This is one of those times when the 3 hour time difference does *not* work to my advantage. You guys are insane!
@Barbara: Absolutely. A comment section is meant to spark intelligent civilized conversation. James and I always welcome differing opinions from our readers, after all, it’s not all about us and another view might provide something we haven’t considered.
@Allison: I felt the same frustration. Let me say, we understand all the behind the scenes stuff going on and we know the reasons for this. I think what got to me most was the tone of the post, it could have been said much better.
@Betsy: I’d be interested to see how this experiment turns out too.
@Brett: Yes, it had to be said.
@Jean: Unfortunately, that’s how it came off to many of us.
@Prin: It is disconcerting the first time you get a commentor disagreeing with something you’ve written. I’ve taken my cues from James, he’s the King of gracefully responding to opposing viewpoints. The thing is, he doesn’t take it personally, and neither should you. As he’s always said, if you write about something, be prepared to defend your point of view and have the info to back it up – whether you’ve written the post or are just dropping a comment. Far too many people spout off for the sake of appearing edgy or knowledgeable.
@Kelly: Thank you. There’s nothing wrong with calling someone out, so long as you don’t turn it into a personal attack. I have no animosity towards Naomi, James and I love her dearly, but what kind of friend would I be to just sit there and say nothing?
@Mark W: Mild seems to be my middle name. I’ve called people out before and that’s just my innate sense of justice I guess – even if I am as fierce as a kitten hissing at a Great Dane.
@Mark D: Yeah, I feel like something is missing now, too. Time will tell if it was a good move for her or not.
@WriterDad: When you’re first starting out comments are very important. It gets people interested in your blog and draws attention. I wouldn’t advise a move like this for fledgling bloggers at all.
@James: That was the feeling I got too. The “go away, you’re bothering me and I’m trying to work here” was what struck me the most. Again, the post needed better wording.
@Gary: No matter what, people will always find a way to speak their mind.
@Vekin: A static site is what it feels like now for sure. It’ll be a test for Naomi to see how well the blog stands up without the comments.
@RL: No danger of us telling you all to piss off. You guys are what keeps us going.
@Deb: Yes, respect for your readers is what it comes down to.
@Miguel: Welcome to MwP! Nothing wrong with lurking, I do it all the time. You picked a hell of a day to jump in. Bravo!
@Susan: It’s true, this medium is all about interactivity. Readers feed off the writers and vice versa. Like you and so many others have said, if I wanted to just read a straight article, I’d go read a magazine.
@Panther: No anger management classes here. I’m just too nice of a guy to get really mean, but getting mean wasn’t my intention anyway. Very few people have seen me truly angry. Just ask James, it’s scary when it happens.
@Lisa: That may have been so when blogs were in their infancy, but they’ve evolved into much more than that. If you’re promoting a business it’s in your best interest to interact with your community. That’s how this blog got started. We wanted to stay in touch with the people we worked for (and future clients as well). It gives us a chance to get to know them while they get to know us. A blog is a very useful tool to have in your arsenal, and like any tool, you have to know how to use it correctly for the maximum results.
@Nicole: You would be correct in your assumption. I think you’re right when you say you get what you give. Naomi is very outspoken and she does invite controversy, and with that, she’s going to get a lot of people who like to disagree for the sake of disagreement.
@Rob: I have to agree, if you’re going to shut down your comments you’d better make damned sure your content is what’s drawing people in the first place. Could MwP stand alone without comments? I think so. We know what we write is good and people aren’t drawn here for the comments alone, but to do so wouldn’t be in our best interest because for us the community and the content go hand in hand.
@Janice: A larger conversation is happening, glad you could join us
@Harry RE: “…if you’re going to shut down your comments you’d better make damned sure your content is what’s drawing people in the first place.”
Very good point. As noted, controversial writing draws controversy, and she may have just cut off a huge part of what drew people to her blog in the first place. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Nicole Brunets last blog post..Gary: 2002
I wasn’t offended, but like Nicole, I see the “in your face” tone of that post as pretty consistent with most of the posts on that blog. I always sort of took it with a grain of salt as part of her schtick.
As far as what defines a “blog,” I’ve had to deal with clients who are stuck with a “blog software” that doesn’t allow for RSS or subscriptions. Truthfully, if I had to choose between giving users the ability to comment, or giving them the ability to subscribe, I’d go with the latter–but I guess you could still reap some business benefits with neither.
This has obviously been a controversial decision, and given how many people have been ascribing motivations to Naomi for this decision that simply aren’t true, I thought I’d leave a comment to try and explain this move.
A year ago when we started IttyBiz, the intention was to start a website that small business owners could turn to when they wanted help with their marketing. It’s our belief that a lack of marketing plan is the main reason why small businesses fail. What we wanted was a place where Naomi could use her marketing experience to help other business owners.
What happened was we ended up with a marketing forum, where people were discussing the pros and cons of various marketing ideas. This is not a bad idea for a website. Others have already created sites like this (Seth Godin’s Tribes comes to mind). The problem was it wasn’t the site we wanted.
Add to this we were receiving e-mails from readers saying that they came to our site for advice but after reading all the comments they were more confused thanwhen they arrived. The harsh realization was we simply weren’t running the type of website we intended to run. Therefore, Naomi put up with some of the personal attacks in order to give the people asking for help the help they asked for.
Personally, I am extremely disappointed with the people who claim to know Naomi providing their own reasoning for why she turned off the comments. I knew going into this that this would be an unpopular decision. That’s fine. What really bothers me is when people who say they know Naomi claiming that she turned of the comments simply “to avoid facing criticism”.
Anyone who knows Naomi personally knows she has absolutely no problems with criticism. She will often go out of her way to encourage criticism. She knew that she would be criticized for turning off her comments (what, you think she doesn’t read other blogs?) but she did it anyway because that was the best way to help the people she set out to help.
Personally, I think she should be congratulated instead of attacked.
Jamies last blog post..Humor in Marketing, Making Your People Buy More Stuff, and That Book We Keep Talking About
@ Jamie – Hey, thanks for stopping by and I appreciate your comment.
As I’ve mentioned (possibly not well enough), I understand and respect the decision to shut down commenting. I think that a different way of delivering the news could have been chosen. There’s a difference between snark and rude – I like snark. I’m all for snark. But the rest… meh, I could do without. It was unnecessarily harsh.
That said, I’ve personally been at the point of having it up to here with various areas in business and I know when I reach that point, I have trouble couching my decisions in gentler words.
Can we blame it on PMS, burn out, or just a bad hair day?
I think a blog should allow comments, because it helps up all grow, but I also agree that it can get out of hand. You can’t control what others write, but you can delete the nasty ones.
What’s wrong with issuing a challenge to readers to make the discussion productive or stimulating?
I’m not sure how I feel about this, but it seems there should be another way that promotes harmony. Maybe it’s just me.
Jamies last blog post..Pick the Brains of Top Bloggers!
@Harry – Exactly. You know, I could really care less that she turned off her comments. Her blog, she can do what she’d like. I may stay, I may leave, but I certainly don’t expect her to change to keep me. What really got me was, like you said, the tone. The, “you people don’t know anything, it’s my blog and you’re here to listen to my lecture, so go eff yourselves.” tone. Without that post, everything would have gone on more or less as usual, with just a little curiosity as to why the comments were gone. But that post was enough to make me wonder if I really want to continue to subscribe…
@prin – I’ve gotten a lot of disagreement and even some downright nasty comments on my blog, and I’ve made it my policy to allow everything except spam through, although I entirely understand why not everyone does this. I’ve been lucky enough to have some of my other readers defend me at times, but more important for me, I want my readers to see that they’re allowed to disagree with me.
My question to you, Harry, is that since you claim to be a “friend”, did you take a moment to give Naomi the courtesy of an email, phone call, whatever, to discuss it with her before this, and maybe clue her in to the fact that you were about to publicly rip her apart?
I’m appalled at the nature of this post, and even more appalled at the comments.
@Lisa: I’m sorry you feel that way. This post wasn’t written to rip anyone apart and I believe I made that very clear.
I disagree with the action, not the person and if anyone views it as otherwise, feel free to speak up.
Okay, I’ll go first:
“I still like these people, but I don’t agree with their actions or words – or the effects they might have on other people and their lives.”
I think that says it all. Pretty cut and dried.
Also, who was the first person to actually name “the blogger in question”? From the post, one would have to be very familiar with this blogger’s blog in order to even know who Harry is talking about. I’m pretty sure that it doesn’t constitute a public ripping-apart when half the readers don’t know the “blogger in question”.
And as for those of us who actually know her blog–well, we aren’t going to be terribly effected by Harry and who knows why? Because we’re either subscribed to the blog in question or we frequent it. There’s a reason why we frequent it. It’s because it’s a fricking good blog.
So rant on, Harry.
I think it’s pretty clear that you guys like the person. Heck, I actually understand her reasoning – I don’t even get many comments on my blog and yet I still feel like my blog takes away precious time from other business endeavors.
I read the article, the delivery was poor and you’re just voicing your opinion (and hopefully highlight something to learn from) just as she voiced hers.
Hey, that’s blogging!
John Hoff – eVentureBizs last blog post..The Pros and Cons of Social Media Marketing and Does It Teach Us Bad Habits As Entrepreneurs?
Okay, I know I said “nuff said”… hey, I was running out the door this morning! So I have more to say
Having read everyone else’s thoughts so far, I did have other things on my mind.
The original decision to stop the comments – I thought, “well, okay, no problem – your choice, I guess you’re busy and that’s your choice”.
But Leo at Zen Habits has like 70,000 subscribers, and he’s responded to my comments before. Brian at Copyblogger has 45000 subscribers or so, and he’s responded to my comments. And you guys respond to my comments too.
(Though Leo, Brian, and you guys are busy, too.)
But, to each her own, I figured.
I suppose my feeling then changed because of the attitude that came through in the post in question.
And then I thought some more.
Let’s say I start a blog, and I talk like a potty mouth all the time.
Well, guess what? Other people are also going to talk like a potty mouth. It is inevitable.
Birds of a feather flock together, and all that.
I mean really, what would I expect if I said “frak this” and “frak that” all the time? Pretty soon, everyone would say “frak”.
Then I’d look like a big hypocrite if I came out one day and said “my blog’s full of people saying ‘frak’ all the time and that won’t do because I’m trying to run a business, so get lost and go frak yourself”.
Umm, if I had a blog where I said “frak”, and then wanted to have a business, I’d probably start another blog for business.
I have plenty of business ideas myself (being serious now), and it isn’t likely that any of them will be showcased on my current blog – why? Because it isn’t a match.
Brett Legrees last blog post..they live.
Ok, here’s my solution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXeTfDloDCU
Jamies last blog post..Pick the Brain of Harrison McLeod of Men With Pens
Brett,
Brian never says frak-all to me. Hmpf.
I have to agree with you, though I still respect the person’s decision, and though it’s still the tenor of the post in question, not the choice to make a major change, that’s at issue for me.
It does seem rather likely that things get boisterous when there is a boisterous leader at the head of the parade. ‘Nuff said.
Until later,
Kelly
Kellys last blog post..Tip of the Week: Can You Do It, When It’s Been Done?
@Brett, you took the smeggin words right out of my mouth, nicely stated.
I do think it is important for businesses, big or small, corporate or freelance, to make incremental improvements in their day-to-day processes, whether it works out and is indeed an improvement or not.
This blogger is getting a smeg-load of market research through Harry’s reaction and all the comments that has followed (both positive and negative). I guess it is up to her if she wants to go about it eloquently or not…
Lots can be learned from this. Thanks for the rant Harry.
@Harry
Great post! I don’t like to single out any one blogger versus another, but I think this needed to be said.
Me, personally, I feel it’s the equivalent of walking into a store, and instead of the owner saying “May I help you?”, is being told to” Get the Eff out if you’re not going to buy anything, I’m trying to run an Effing business here!”.
Hey, if that’s how someone wants to run their business, fine. Whatever floats their boat.
But I don’t care how good they might be. I’d just as soon go to a smaller store down the road, where I know I’m better appreciated.
Friars last blog post..Guest Blogger: Friar’s Mom
Taking umbrage at Naomi being snarky and sharp-tongued is like getting pissed off at Godin for being bald. It ain’t gonna change, and if it did, it would really freak us out.
Removing comments changes the dynamic of her blog a lot, and I miss the hangout, but it is her joint and her decision to make about what works for her business. I don’t for a moment believe that a blog “has to have” comments. And a lot of Naomi’s customers are not her commenters. I don’t know if it will work well for her or not, but I’m a big fan of her content and I’ll keep tuning in.
Now I just need to find another blog whose comments I can swear like a sailor in, though. I miss that.
Sonia Simones last blog post..Objection Blaster Series #3: Dakara Nani? (So What?)
I didn’t feel slighted because although I stop by her blog once in a while, I only just subscribed (and I’ve never left a comment there). I think that if she was shutting off her comments sections because she had “made it” and no longer wanted to take the time to read and respond to comments, she would have just shut down the comments section without saying anything. Instead, she gave an explanation which I felt to be valid. I appreciate the people who take the time to comment on my blog, but I don’t get a lot of trolls. And if Naomi does get a lot of trolls, I can understand why she would make the decision to pull up the draw bridge (trolls can be very annoying and iritating).
Marelisas last blog post..27 Simple Ways to Simplify Your Life
I read the “blog in question” (anyone else feel like we’re discussing “He Who Must Not Be Named” here?
) and was shocked by the tone of the shutting down the comments post, like it was “I’m taking my ball and going now” but to me her reasons were sound – she wants to lecture. She doesn’t want to discuss. She felt that too many people were hijacking the message of her lectures.
Naomi (yes, I’d be one of the ones who would insist on saying “Voldemort”) has always been a rude bitch and enjoyed being so. That’s her schtick. That kind of thing can easily go one step to far, I suppose (it’s certainly something I’d never do but then again I make Harry look like the Incredible Hulk in full-green mode).
I do tend to not read blogs that are comment-less because there are a lot of blogs out there on similar topics that contain good information and encourage conversations. I’ll keep up with the blog for now but if I stop higher than average value then I’ll stop. Yes, by cutting out the conversation Naomi has raised the bar on the quality of the content – it must not just be good content, it has to be super fucking awesome to hold my attention now.
Good luck to her and I hope the lecturing instead of conversing works out for her.
Alex Fayle | Someday Syndromes last blog post..The Simple Life: Nicole Stevens Interview
LOL, I am so going to start calling Naomi “Voldemort” now.
Sonia Simones last blog post..Objection Blaster Series #3: Dakara Nani? (So What?)
Okay…I could not resist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1XIm6q4r4
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Have You Lined Up Your Goals This Week?
@Alex – whew, thanks. It was killing me, but nobody took me up on my subtle hint to let the cat out of the bag. Leave it to my brother to loosen the drawstrings and let the cat roam free.
This brings up an interesting point. If I am going to talk about someone’s blog, I would just say So-And-So’s blog. Even if I was criticizing it, but that’s because I wouldn’t criticize without offering up a solution or alternate approach. I’m not good with this cloak and dagger stuff. My philosophy is, if you can’t mention the person’s name, don’t write about it.
@Everyone – thoughts on this?
Urban Panthers last blog post..Airport shenanigans
@ Urban – I think in this particular case, mentioning names detracts from the point of the post, which was to not attack a person but rather an action. When you add a name and link, you are attacking in a more personal way.
We aren’t afraid of Voldemort, but naming anyone didn’t add to the post’s message or benefit anyone. There was no point, so we didn’t.
Panther,
My thought was that Harry was trying to say, “don’t try this at home.” Therefore the individual he was thinking of was not (critically) important to the topic.
I rarely mention the inspirations for my posts, because I’m trying to points out Dos and Don’ts for my readers, not for my inspiration. They’ve already done… or don’ted.
Later,
Kelly
James, my comment is caught…I added a link to a Harry Potter Puppet Show in the spirit of fun. I support Naomi’s decision to fulfill her ideal client’s expectations. And As Jamie said their business plan. I think blogs have life cycles. And scaling issues. Changes, transitions are a matter of growth and intent. Sometimes the changes come gradually. Sometimes that change cannot be contained. Didn’t Sparkpluggin’ go through a whole rebranding because of scale and intent?
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Have You Lined Up Your Goals This Week?
@Kelly: Yes, exactly. Don’t try this at home.
Oh, you were setting it free as I was typing.
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Have You Lined Up Your Goals This Week?
I’m a fast little bunny
I thought that it was common decency to not name her.
I think it’s better to take her out of the picture completely and discuss how the words made us feel. In our field, we need to draw the line between the personal and the business. We write the words, but we’re not equal to the words.
It seems as though the Pen Men knew that we struggle with this (but I’m not putting words in their mouths….). That’s probably why they didn’t include the name at all–to keep us from trying to personalize Naomi’s work.
First of all, the reason her commentators were not welcoming or friendly is because she didn’t take the time to answer her readers questions and get connected to her daily visitors of her blog. The biggest bloggers connect with their readers by answering questions and responding to post. Besides, commentators are vital to a bloggers success. They add value, substance, and higher page rank! Come on people, lets work together! Good post, man.
Yes, and I totally understand Harry’s reasoning for leaving the name out. BUT humans are inherently curious critters and the comments led to Voldemort Syndrome. Now, because the identity was shrouded in mystery, the point of the post was almost detracted from. But, not one to criticize without offering up an alternative here’s my two cents:
In order to keep a post about a theory, rather than an individual, perhaps the post should be kept theoretical rather than specifically alluding to an individual. The person/specific event in question is simply an inspiration to the writer, and the readers are oblivious to the existence of the actual event, thereby avoiding Voldemort Syndrome.
Urban Panthers last blog post..Airport shenanigans
@Urban Panther– That’s a really good point. I like that you offer suggestions for change as well
I completely and 100% support her and any other blogger’s decision to stop comments at the point that comments no longer benifit the reason for the website’s exsistence. She isn’t there to entertain us, she is running a business and trying to help a specific target marget that she feels will benifit better by not having the comment section.
Could she have said it in a different tone? Sure. She could have even said please. BUT we are talking about someone who was consistent with the tone of all of her writing and to do something less would have seemed silly. She was true to herself and she was authentic. I respect her and won’t be going anywhere.
I think a business owner has to weigh their decisions against a lot of factors and make choices- difficult ones- that the public won’t always be privy to. Sometimes they work, sometimes not. They learn, they shift, they try again. If they have built a loyal following and put their KEY clients first- and to do that, you have to know WHO THEY ARE- they will most likely have the chance to learn from their experiences.
Those that judge, be careful, your day will come when not everyone will understand what you are doing either. It will be nice to have your friends standing at your side.
Wendi Kelly-Life’s Little Inspirationss last blog post..Cleaning Closets
@ Wendi – Hey now. Good comment and I understand your point. I hope you don’t feel that we’re judging the blogger based on her actions – that would be against all of my and Harry’s beliefs of open acceptance of people, and completely and entirely against the point of this post.
I ask this, though: what is the limits of consistency of voice? I am direct. Can I be too direct? I think so, Wendi. What about Harry – he’s quiet. Can he be too quiet? Yes, indeed. And so it goes for snark, I feel. There are limits between sarcastic snark and condescending rudeness. I suppose where those limits are depend on each person’s perspective.
Sadly, Harry is indeed too quiet. Need mo’ Harry genius in my days.
Kellys last blog post..Tip of the Week: Can You Do It, When It’s Been Done?
I actually get far more email than comments on my blog. That’s fine with me too. It isn’t that I don’t want people to comment. I like it that they do and I enjoy hanging out and having a discussion.
No, the reason I like getting the email is that those visitors who do not feel comfortable commenting are often working on their own fear of writing (which is basically what my blog is about).
So there’s no way I’d shut the comments down. After all, the blog is for everyone to enjoy as they like and hopefully to learn from my mistakes. If that turns out to be a private thing for some readers, I’m all for it.
Great post Harry!
Well, here I am at the bottom of a long stream of comments, and since I rarely read this far down, I’m also assuming others won’t read. But, what the heck, I’ll add my two shekels.
Before content, before pricing, before features, there is tribe. I wrote about this recently in a blog post, Why Clients Don’t Buy- The Hierarchy of Choice.
I will be very curious about what happens with Naomi’s blog as she continues forward, and whether she is able to maintain a strong sense of belonging and tribe without the comments section. Part of the value of the comments in a blog is not just whether a conversation is valuable in terms of content, but whether people can see if they are alone, or if there IS a tribe they belong to.
Because Naomi’s own authentic way of speaking connected so strongly to so many people, there is clearly a tribal thing going on.
However, the same sense of tribe has been created through email and other one-way communications- I experience tribe much more strongly with the several thousand people on my email list than with the rather anemic following on my blog at this point. Not that I don’t welcome it on my blog- it’s just my blog isn’t as visible (yet!?!).
I read a blog post by Joe Vitale once that struck me, even though I don’t often agree with the guy’s approach to life. He said that he spends over an hour every single day responding personally to emails, because that’s his business, those are the people who support what he’s doing.
I’ve taken that same attitude with my email and now with my blog. It’s not the only way to do things, and I support Naomi 100% in following what’s true for her. I’m just curious to see how it pans out.
Mark Silvers last blog post..Why Clients Don’t Buy- The Hierarchy of Choice
Somehow I missed this. And now, reading it, I feel like the ostracized child of a bitter divorce.
I haven’t read all the comments because I’m having a bad day, and I don’t think I could take it. Maybe tomorrow.
Great discussion here. The comments section highlighting and contributing significantly to the discussion. Hmmm What does that mean?
Harmonys last blog post..Who Is A Global Citizen?
Before I went out on my own, I was an account guy for a couple of the biggest ad agencies in the world. We actually believed that clients did business with us because we were always right – and we were pretty arrogant and dismissive when clients disagreed with us.
Imagine our surprise when an industry research study told us that clients felt they could do without us pretty darn easily, since their own marketing departments could do what we did, only better. Oops – big dose of reality there.
Same with blogs. Arrogance is not an effective communications strategy. If I want people to write checks to me, I have to create and maintain a relationship with them.
While I might not have to expend the same energy on everyone, and I choose the people I invest time and energy in, I have to remember what what I post is seen by everyone. That means I have to deal with the obstreperous posters in a way that my more valuable contributors respect.
And if I don’t invest the time and thought in doing this, well, they are going to brand me with the same epithet I apply to those guys I don’t like. And they will likely be accurate.
@ Liz – Okay, wait, so you’re saying that if I say I’m your friend, you’ll write me a cheque…?
It’s taken me all day to get through the various posts and comments to be sure of this, but here it is: Harry – I’m calling you on this post.
James | Dancing Geeks last blog post..I’m calling out Men with Pens
@ James – Oh coolness! I’m going to read now. (Um, what does this say about us that I get excited when someone disagrees?)
Holy comment volume, batman!
I consider myself relatively thin-skinned, and I didn’t feel insulted by Naomi’s explanation for removing comments, as the tone was consistent with the rest of her posts.
Whether or not the decision turns out to be bad for business remains to be seen, but the bulk of comments here fail to make the distinction between the strategy and the execution.