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  1. Kristen King says:

    James, you sound like my mom, what with cows and free milk. She’s always right, though, so that bodes well. :) For both of us, now that I think about it. Great post.

    Kristen King´s last blog post…Narrative Magazine Announces the 30 Below Winners and Finalists

  2. This reminds me of that speech that grandmothers give granddaughters about the birds and the bees. “Why should he buy the cow when he gets the milk for free?” :D

    A few sneak peaks are good to let ‘em know you’ve got what they need/want, but you’re right. If you let it all hang out, why in the world would anyone pay for what they can get elsewhere? Because they’re really nice people deep down and want to help you out because you need to pay your mortgage? Not likely.

    Jamie Simmerman´s last blog post…OBS Tips: Tackling the Impossible Task

  3. Anne Wayman says:

    Amen!

    Darn… that may be me, at least in part… rats, another rethinking required… always happens.

    Thanks, I think.

    Anne Wayman, now blogging at www.aboutfreelancewriting.com

    Anne Wayman´s last blog post…No Jobs Today

  4. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Writing is a business. Repeat after me, everyone, writing is a business. It takes time, training, resources (material and otherwise), expertise to write. This is WORTH something. Why are people giving away free manuals? Free workshops? Free e-books? It is next to impossible to put a fair market price on anything because the next guy just gave his stuff away. The worst offenders for undervaluing ourselves as writers and artists are ourselves. STOP IT!!!! What we do has value!

    /end of Panther rant … for now

    Urban Panther´s last blog post…Are sweatpants disrespectful?

  5. @Urban Panther

    We give it away because we’re monetizing something else. I “give away” technical info because it helps me sell consulting and because it gives me healthy Adsense income.

    We have a genuine political difference of opinion here. On the one side are the “peacocks” like me and on the other are the “dairy owners”. We can argue about this forever, but one thing is true: there are a lot of “peacocks” on the web today and you “dairy owners” need to figure out how you’ll compete with your approach.

    I don’t think you can. As you said, “it is next to impossible to put a fair market price on anything because the next guy just gave his stuff away”. That says it all, doesn’t it?

    We “peacocks” already know what we need to do. You “dairy owners” seem confused and worried. That might tell you something too.

    Anthony Lawrence´s last blog post…What I want in my next GPS by Anthony Lawrence

  6. @Anthony – OUCH! LOL We seem to butt heads, eh? Mind you, you would think that my bovine head should be able to plow through your peacock head. Go figure! Okay, your approach makes sense because you are marketing technical information. I totally get ‘giving away’ info to monetize and promote your services. I am refering more to the arts. The very first time Writer Dad sold a short story on his blogsite, I think the reaction was generally one of horror. And I’ll be honest, my initial reaction was that too. But good on him. He should be selling his short stories! I plan on selling mine. But I find that artists in general under value themselves, making it hard for artists who want (and should!) value themselves.

    Urban Panther´s last blog post…Are sweatpants disrespectful?

  7. @Urban Panther

    Actually, I think artists and writers tend to over value their worth.

    The biggest obstacle for most artists and writers in the past was to get their stuff in front of an audience. That used to be very hard because it was expensive to do.

    Now it’s dirt cheap. Everybody can publish; all you need is an internet connection. We also have word processing now, digital cameras, a lot of free or inexpensive tools that make writing and art more accessible to ordinary people. It’s very hard to write 50,000 words in long hand, a little easier with a typewriter, and very easy with a computer (trust me, I’ve done that all three ways).

    So we get a lot of artists and writers now and we quicly learned something interesting: while there may be very few truly great writers and artists, there are plenty who are “good enough”. Too many, if you hope to make money in this area.

    Go look at http://authonomy.com/ for example. A lot of hopeful folk there and maybe a few will get published, but most won’t. “Decent” writing and artistic skills are NOT rare commodities – the supply is far greater than the demand.

    I know, I know: everybody thinks they are “special”. A very few are. Most are not. I don’t mean “bad” – in yesterday’s world, their stuff might have been good enough. But there’s too much of it now and definitely not under-valued.

    Anthony Lawrence´s last blog post…What I want in my next GPS by Anthony Lawrence

  8. James says:

    I’m with Anthony on this one. There’s art, and then there are arTEESTes.

    No one is Rembrant or Monet. No one is Michelangelo or DaVinci. No one is Mozart or Beethoven. These people, to me, were artists.

    Now, I write well. I write fiction, novels, copy, sales jam… you name it. But I don’t consider myself an artist in the least.

    I am a craftsman, yes. To me, writing is a trade. It’s not art. Far be it for me to elevate myself to “artist” status. And I sure as shit don’t want anyone to hand me that label either.

  9. @James @Anthony – semantics :)

    Urban Panther´s last blog post…Are sweatpants disrespectful?

  10. Steve Errey says:

    I haven’t read all the comments on this one (bad Steve, go to your room), but there’s a big element of self-value here.

    When I’m working with new business owners (especially new coaches) the biggest leap they have to make is from training and starting up their business to actually charging real money for real work.

    The gap between not placing monetary value on your work and your time and placing a value on those things is a surprisingly big one, and is tied up with a whole bunch of stuff about how you perceive yourself and how good you think you are at what you do.

    It can get pretty complex and messy if you’re not careful.

    I feel an article coming on…

    Steve Errey´s last blog post…How my Confidence is Regularly Pushed and Tested

  11. “I feel an article coming on…”

    I think a lot of us had that feeling. I certainly did (though CommentLuv is still seeing something much older). You really should read all the comments though: I think both sides of this issue (the peacocks and the dairy owners) made good points.

    I also think we all agree that Internet businesses are very different from the more traditional forms. We are really pioneers, learning our way. I don’t think any of us are yet in a position to say “this is the one way to do it”.

    Anthony Lawrence´s last blog post…What I want in my next GPS by Anthony Lawrence

  12. Brett Legree says:

    I also think it is a lot more complicated than it used to be – now there is a lot of competition from folks who are “good enough” – and sometimes being “the best” author/painter/musician isn’t enough.

    You’ve got to get your media or whatever in front of someone who will buy it. You need other skills besides the artistic ones. You need connections. And you need luck.

    Take my local bookstore. There are a lot of great books there by damned fine authors, and maybe my skill doesn’t approach theirs – no problem. Then, I’d say there are a lot of other books I wouldn’t even use to wipe my butt.

    People buy them anyway, because they might not have high standards for what they read, or just because they can’t find anything better. I mean, once you’ve read all the good books, what then? You read the not so good books.

    Or watch the “B” movies. How many bad movies make money when they go to video, because people are bored and try it anyway?

    Music is the same. How many artists are at the level of a Beethoven today?

    Not many. But I’ll bet you 50 cents that 50 Cent sells more CD’s.

    Brett Legree´s last blog post…week 2 – check up.

  13. “once you’ve read all the good books, what then? You read the not so good books.”

    True. But also there’s the matter of sophistication and readiness. A particular person may not be ready to read the “good” books. I’ve been yelled at before for asserting that Steven King, Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov were atrociously bad fiction writers with the major argument being “they must be good: they are so darn popular”. Well no, they aren’t: their characters are shallow, juvenile and clumsily drawn. It’s NOT good writing, but I’d be the first to admit that a lot of people just don’t care. For those people, those ARE good books. It’s probably safe to say that the books I enjoy would get a cold reception from that same audience. So what really is “good”?

    I say good writing is writing that accomplishes its purpose, whether that’s to entertain (Heinlein fails to entertain me but certainly hits the mark for others) or to sell an ebook. My 9th grade English teacher was a martinet about grammar and sentence structure she’d never agree with my judgment of “good”, but that’s OK: she needed certain rules to be observed for her to enjoy the experience. She wasn’t “wrong”, just different.

    I just finished reviewing “The E-Myth Revisited”. That’s a very popular book which obviously resonated with many readers. I hated it. Is it “good”?
    Sure.. but not for me.

    Oh well, I’m rambling..

    Anthony Lawrence´s last blog post…What I want in my next GPS by Anthony Lawrence

  14. Brett Legree says:

    Tony, you’re not rambling, I almost went on to say something very similar to what you said. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

    Some books/movies/music that I think are “good” are considered to be “crap” by most other people, and I may think that what they like is garbage.

    So you’re right – if it accomplishes the purpose set out by the creator of the work, perhaps it is “good”. Now, is it “good enough” to sell?

    That might be a bit more difficult to answer.

    Brett Legree´s last blog post…week 2 – check up.

  15. James says:

    Just a quick note that I thought the E-Myth was *horribly* written.

    BUT! It is excellent in its concepts for business.

  16. Harry says:

    It was horribly written. I think we all could have done without Sarah and her pies.

  17. Yes, we could have done without her pies and fawning admiration. Entire chapters could have been condensed into single paragraphs. But the whole insistence that sole proprietors cannot survive and franchising is the best path for any business is silly.

    There’s nothing in there that can’t be had for less pain elsewhere.

    Anthony Lawrence´s last blog post…What I want in my next GPS by Anthony Lawrence

  18. There’s nothing wrong with giving and helping to add value to the blogosphere, however, you don’t get to selling or charging for services if you haven’t left your mark… Another thing to consider, as you all know, the blogosphere is vast, as well as competitive- tons of bloggers and writers are pouring out free material like e-books or how to videos or tutorials. People deserve to be rewarded for their labor… if you’re unwilling to give back- go somewhere else, period. I’ve paid for a few e-books myself, because it’s worth it, and the writer should be rewarded.

    I understand your point, Darren from problogger offers tons of resources posts, and helps others to reach their blogging goals and so on. But, he charges for his personal, detailed training because it helps to pay the bills, he like others need to make a living. PERIOD!

    I take issue with people who haven’t given anything to the blogging community but expect everyone to give to them! They expect people to buy their services, ads and so forth. They won’t succeed, why because they never paid their dues; they never took the time to build relationships or to help others. Eventually, after we do the time, after we built trust, after we reached an audience, then we may be able to successful offer services people will want to buy without complaint, why? Trust, you’re authentic, genuine and of course, proven!

    Excellent work, :) Cheers,
    -Miguel

 

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