I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. Where I live, the cultural expectation is outspoken frankness and people are generally pretty passionate about their views. They say what they think, and they feel free to disagree. It’s all good. Everyone chinks beers at the end of the day and toasts each other.
But that doesn’t always fly in a virtual world. I’m terribly conscious that offending other people is very easy to do. The online personality you portray could upset others, your personal views could alienate readers, or and the type of comments you make on other blogs could offend people.
Still, where is the line? When someone tells you the sky is red and you know it’s blue, should you debate the point? If someone comes out with a highly skeptical statement, should you call the person out? If someone says, “I can fly,” is it alright to respond with: “Prove it.”
This recent claim in the comment section on a post at Freelance Writing Gigs got me started: “I’m probably doing ten of them an hour – meaning I’m working at 50 dollars an hour.” We’re talking 500 words an article, folks. 10 of ‘em. Per hour. That’s an article every six minutes.
*cough cough*
“Let it go,” Harry would say. “It isn’t important. It doesn’t matter.” But it matters to me when people make questionable claims. I think to myself, who might come along afterwards, read this, and think it’s true – and not only true, but very possible and common?
I don’t think that’s right.
So sometimes I just can’t help myself. I call a spade a spade, and I might call out people who seem to be bullshitting everyone. Does that get me in trouble? Oh yes. Do my actions hurt me or the business? Possibly. I’ve been warned once or twice for not wording my comments very well. (Sorry, Deb. Note to all readers: Even when telling someone you don’t believe them, do it politely. Word it properly.)
But if we all swallow what everyone says without speaking up, what kind of world would we live in? Why is it wrong to say, “I don’t believe you,” and why does saying that we don’t believe someone make us impolite? Why should we accept what people say at face value and keep our mouths shut when we disagree?
“Because I’m really not interested in putting out fires, James,” Harry would say. “But if you’re going to do it,” he’ll add, knowing full well that sometimes, I just can’t help myself, “Can you do it on a day that we’re both here to manage the flames?”
Here are the problems as I see it:
When you offend someone on my blog, I risk losing MY traffic. People aren’t going to want to come back to what they feel is hostile territory. If you want to go ahead and offend someone on your own blog, that’s a whole other story.
Yesterday someone was insulting one of the jobs posted. This was a gig that came through email – not in the usual leads list. I don’t mind a wages discussion, but now we run the risk of offending the people who are giving the FWJ community first shot at the gigs. Don’t like the gig? Move on or talk about it on your own blog. When you’re a visitor in my home, I expect you to be polite to the guests.
Besides turning off potential visitors, you run the risk of marring your reputation. People may not want to communicate with you if they feel you’re too confrontational.
I enjoy a good, healthy debate but I also have to protect my community. I hope you understand when I give a little smackdown it’s nothing personal. I do agree sometimes one needs to call a spade a spade, but in today’s P.C. world it’s not always that easy.
@ Deb – Good points and I appreciate your input. But the question is, if you put up a post that stirs debate, is it right for you to say, “I want your comments but please comment in a way that benefits me, regardless of what I posted.” That is the risk for blog owners – posting content that may not hit the positive note with the readers.
I think you addressed this potential issue here: “Move on or talk about it on your own blog.” Open commenting on a blog does mean you’ll get all sorts of people saying all sorts of things, so again, I think you’re saying, “Comment, but comment my way or the highway.”
That is your right as a blog owner, certainly. A blog is your home, and your guests shouldn’t trash the furniture. But if you invite guests into your home, you do have to expect they’ll dirty the floor a little, no?
I do agree that the risk to the commentator is a loss of reputation (which is why I suggested that if anyone is going to disagree, they should be polite and diplomatic). But what happens when you believe that standing up for what you believe in is part of your reputation as opposed to playing sheep and following the herd of the complacent?
And you hit the nail on the head: It’s difficult to decide what flies and what doesn’t. Smack-downs happen and are often well justified. (I deserved mine, gentle as it was!) But I think that supervising the spades in the sandbox to make sure no one hits the other in the head is important. But offering a sandbox that people can only sit in and stare at each other isn’t the best answer… is it?
PS – the post wasn’t about you, btw. I just used the example because it was a good one. I do appreciate your input
Very valid points. For me, it’s not necessarily a “my way or the highway” sort of thing. I have two rules. 1. You don’t insult the community and 2. You don’t insult the people who ask to post gigs. In other words, be nice – and you are.
So you can disagree to your heart’s content, but if I find you’re crossing the line to insults and chasing my traffic away I have to step in. I don’t like moderating or deleting comments on blogs and I only do so in the cases of name calling or personal attacks.
I don’t think most of it is intentional, either. The majority of community members get along but are so passionate in their beliefs they get carried away some times. After three years of doing this, I think I know the comfort level of the people who visit my blog. So please, do give your opinion, as heated as it may be but don’t insult.That’s all I ask.
Hm, the use of “you, you, you” has me feeling singled out whereas my post is about general topic… but no matter.
Those are good simple rules and ones we try to apply here as well, though we tend to have more tolerance than other blogs as long as comments don’t cross the line. Do all people know and respect this? Of course not. Without a stated comment policy, there are always people who don’t know the boundaries of playing nice – or where the blog owner’s personal boundaries are. I find some bloggers to be wide open while others have different limits. Figuring out who accepts what is difficult.
Also, figuring out what is acceptable can be different as well. What is fine and well in Quebec is not in the US. What is fine and well in Georgia may not be in California. What is fine for the UK is not in Australia. And then again, you have individual groups of people within that. What is fine for those who are not religious is not fine with those who are. What is fine for those who accept different lifestyles is not fine for those who prefer more traditional values.
And then again – what is insulting to one may not be to another. Blatant insult (like jerk, ass, stupid, etc) is pretty clear to everyone. Sarcasm, sharp wit or other levels of insult may be considered okay by some and not by others.
And add in personal perception. Different people have different sensitivity levels and what sets off one person won’t set off another.
Complex at best
I promise, it’s a general you and not a “James is the worst offender” you.
Hey James,
I remember all the comments about your balls (for those of you who think I’m talking about porn, I’m not. Remember the WAHM’s?) on Deb’s site. Is that what you’re refering too? It was a very lively and heated kind of debate! Enjoyed it immensely. My rule of thumb is I need to be able to analyze myself well before I analyze others. Even then it doesn’t always work. As a woman I am supposed to be “nice, politic, and polite.” Whatever. There are so many different levels of being on this planet that it’s impossible not to offend someone. Communication is tricky at best, war like at worst.
@ Deb – Good. You still like me. *whew!*
@ Ellen – Don’t worry, I will never forget and Harry and I commonly refer to the incident as “setting your blog on fire”. The day it happened, it was bad news. Worst 12 hours I’ve had in ages (Note to all: Never piss off the WAHMs or they’ll beat you with a gender spoon.)
Now? You’re right – I had a good time, and ended up meeting some cool people. And yes, even though I was juggling my balls at the time, I’m very glad that I did have the balls to step up to the plate and tie myself to the whipping post (wasn’t that bad lol).
Many people don’t have the ability to do that, though.
So – I guess maybe the moral is, if you’re going to have a strong opinion, you’d better have a strong ability to apologize, too.
All I’m going to say, since I feel like I’m a day behind everybody else here, is that 500 word articles in 6 minutes are impossible. Sure, you might be able to type 500 words in 6 minutes…but at what point do you risk quality? I consider myself a pretty fast typist (80 words per minute on 5 minute tests with 97% accuracy), but I certainly can’t pump out great quality at that rate.
I guess it’s not fair to call BS, but can we at least ask for YouTube proof? I want to see a 1 hour video of ACSupporter typing his or her articles. I would be shocked if quality work was actually being completed at that rate of speed.
I agree with Chad. If it’s not impossible, then it’s likely that the quality is pretty low. I’m not even sure that I can think that fast.
It takes me about 45 minutes to write a 500 word article. Sometimes, it may take even longer. Of course, I like to proofread and re-proofread…
There are times that those claims make me feel inadequate. (It’s as though someone said to me: “you mean you can’t churn out ten articles an hour? What on earth is wrong with you?”)
@ Chad – I’m with you. I’m St-Thomas, who always had to see it with his own eyes. (And I’m sure someone will tell me that’s not what St-Thomas was about, so forgive me in advance for goofing it up.)
@ Laura – I think Harry might have something to respond better than I could. I’m sure he will.
So the question is, when people make claims like that, do you sit back and stay quiet? Or do you call it?
“when people make claims like that, do you sit back and stay quiet? Or do you call it?”
A little of both. If I tried to correct every foolish notion that I saw on the Internet I’d get nothing else done, LOL.
On the other hand, if something seems to pop up over and over, then I usually wind up posting about it. I actually have a half-written post on the topic of low wages from before Christmas.
In this case, I wonder if the commentator is just counting the time that it takes to type an article. I interacted with someone else about similar speedy writing claims. When they described in detail what they though was “the work,” I realized that they weren’t including research time or even time to deliver it to a client.
If I tried to correct every foolish notion that I saw on the Internet I’d get nothing else done, LOL.
True. So true.
@Laura: Perfect timing on the the inadequacy issues. I was just sitting here having a moment and trying to get back into the groove of commenting, James being the “comment whore” that he is
James always has a lot to say and he says it all over the place. He’s got such a strong presence that people sit up and take notice. They take notice of me too, but sometimes I feel like I get lost in the shadow of the Comment King and that’s the equivilent to your “you mean you can’t churn out ten articles an hour? What on earth is wrong with you?â€
When James and I first started out, he wrote much faster than I did. He still does. I’m like you, I sweat over each little detail and check and recheck everything. Sometimes writing 500 words can take as little as 15 minutes or as much as a whole day depending how I feel about the subject matter, my state of mind, and my ever shifting confidence levels.
You can’t compare yourself to other people. Sure, some might be faster, but maybe they’ve had more practice, or maybe they really are churning out crap. Others might be boasting because of their own inadequacies and trying to over compensate. What you have to look at is the quality of what you’re producing.
What to do when you have a strong opinion? Yeah that’s a tricky one. If you have a strong opinion about, well pick anything, someone will either take offense or strongly disagree with you.
I find that when talking with them (in person), I try to use the language they use. In other words, if they keep saying “I see,” I try to talk or debate with them in a more visual way. If they say stuff like “That stinks” and “Something smells rotten,” I try to use those sensory words in my debate.
As for on the Web. That’s a little harder because emotion and tone is limited to 0s and 1s.
I can write 500 words in 60 seconds.
Granted, it’s in a language I made up and only I can understand…but to hell with everyone else, I know I write good shit, and I don’t need you people to validate me!
I enjoy the “say what they think, and feel free to disagree” type of people, they rattle the monotony of typical blog comment barf. And, I bet we can rally up enough people who do as well. Enough to feed us, stroke our egos and ignite the fires of our hearts for many a year.
P.S. Seriously James, you could start about 47 new blogs with the amount of comment-ry you leave elsewhere. “Comment Whore” indeed. ;o)
@ Jay – I’m a man on a mission. What would you know about it? You’re just a walking banana – Or is it your week off?
I have to admit that I’m puzzled at times by how to communicate. I’m being open and just disgreeing, and people think I’m attacking their self-worth or personality. Cripes. It reminds me of going to that type of party where you have to go, don’t really know anyone, are completely out of your element, and you stand there with a drink in your hand making banal, polite conversation. What’s wrong with the backyard party where everyone can just be real and drop the uber-manners and stiffness? (Within reason, of course. Jay must keep his pants on.)
@ John – That’s a really interesting tactic and I’m going to test that. Ha, I can just see people trying to figure out why I’m concentrating so hard on what they’re saying: “I’m trying to figure out if you’re a smeller or a seer!”
Luckily, I run a handful of websites based on politics, religion and philosophy. Nuff said.
LOL James. Persuasive talking / negotiating is on my to-do list of blog articles (and speaking someone’s language is part of it).
Hey, if you try it and stumble enough with your words or just sound ridiculous, maybe the person will feel sorry for you and go easy on you and your opinion!!
@ Shaun – *pats on shoulder* You’re a very strong man. Or very determined.
@ John – I try to make it a point to never sound ridiculous – even when I’m coming off as a complete idiot
“It reminds me of going to that type of party where you have to go…”
My two cents, because my battery is flashing Very Scary Warning Signals… The thing is, you DON’T have to go. There’s just as much honour in staying home.
@ Naomi – Hm. Now I will have to think about that all day and ponder a perspective I never thought of. Thank you for that.
See? Didn’t that feel good?